Iraq is a Safer Place Without Saddam?!!

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signalmankenneth

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Iraq women lament costs of U.S. invasion

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Iraq women lament costs of U.S. invasion

One year after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, then-President George W. Bush told a gathering at the White House: “Every woman in Iraq is better off because the rape rooms and torture chambers of Saddam Hussein are forever closed.”
A decade on, that statement rings hollow for many Iraqi women.
 
So? Is that worth the American lives and damaged vets coming home? The trillions of $?

If so, we should probably start invading a bunch of other countries to accomplish the same.

I wish the Iraqi women well. I resent very much the lies and the lives damaged and destroyed.
 
Who was it again that demanded the US get out of Iraq and leave them to suffer civil war ?

And who ultimately did abandon them..?
 
NOVA said:
Who was it again that demanded the US get out of Iraq and leave them to suffer civil war ?

And who ultimately did abandon them..?
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Please. THere is no way to 'fix' Iraq just like there is now no way to 'fix' Afghanistan.

The Bush administration had no other plan than, 'let's bring them democracy.' Just the idea...no actual plan.
 
Lorca said:
Please. THere is no way to 'fix' Iraq just like there is now no way to 'fix' Afghanistan.

The Bush administration had no other plan than, 'let's bring them democracy.' Just the idea...no actual plan.
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So....we got out like the you wanted and left them to fend for themselves....

why complain about it ?.....you got what you wanted, you should rejoice.

It can't be fixed, screw 'em....happy days are here again.

Makes you wonder what would have happened to other countries after war, the ones we didn't give up on....Germany, Japan, South Korea.
well, whats done is done....
 
many of us on the left, especially those who had experience dealing with arabs and muslims, knew that the artificially created "country" of Iraq was a foolish contrivance of ignorant western european christians in the wake of WWI who had no idea about the incredible enmity that had existed for a millennium between sunni and shiite muslims and kurds. Iraqis have no inherent deep seated identity as Iraqis, but as sunnis or shiites or kurds foremost. They will always be at each other's throats and we could accomplish any long term peaceful "resolution" - and I use that term in its loosest form - were we to partition the land into three different countries. In absence of outside "peacekeepers" keeping a lid on sectarian violence by force of arms, the muslim sects forced to coexist in "Iraq" will forever be slaughtering one another.

And if Bush had surrounded himself with real middle eastern experts instead of neocon buffoons, he would have known that.
 
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NOVA said:
So....we got out like the you wanted and left them to fend for themselves....

why complain about it ?.....you got what you wanted, you should rejoice.

It can't be fixed, screw 'em....happy days are here again.

Makes you wonder what would have happened to other countries after war, the ones we didn't give up on....Germany, Japan, South Korea.
well, whats done is done....
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Ah no...we had no exit plan. It was 'we'll bring them democracy'. We had no idea HOW to do that. Still dont. We never had any idea how to fix that country. Didnt care....That isnt why we invaded.
 
maineman said:
many of us on the left, especially those who had experience dealing with arabs and muslims, knew that the artificially created "country" of Iraq was a foolish contrivance of ignorant western european christians in the wake of WWI who had no idea about the incredible enmity that had existed for a millennium between sunni and shiite muslims and kurds. Iraqis have no inherent deep seated identity as Iraqis, but as sunnis or shiites or kurds foremost. They will always be at each other's throats and we could accomplish any long term peaceful "resolution" - and I use that term in its loosest form - were we to partition the land into three different countries. In absence of outside "peacekeepers" keeping a lid on sectarian violence by force of arms, the muslim sects forced to coexist in "Iraq" will forever be slaughtering one another.
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I had a feeling that damn ignorant Christians were to blame for everything, they usually are, right.

Let 'em kill each other, rape their women, and destroy themselves....

I'm through feeling sorry for women getting stoned and the little girls forced to screw old men....time to realize,

we can't win 'em all.....maybe be could help them get it all over with....

We must have been nuts thinking they were actually better than barbarians....
 
the partitioning of the former Ottoman empire, done by victorious europeans, was done without regard to the ethnicities and the animosities of the people summarily and artificially clumped together. Are you really doubting that?
 
maineman said:
the partitioning of the former Ottoman empire, done by victorious europeans, was done without regard to the ethnicities and the animosities of the people summarily and artificially clumped together. Are you really doubting that?
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What ?....did I say something that leads you to ask that question ?.....hallucinating perhaps ? hearing voices ?
 
so... you agree that just assuming that Iraqis would naturally gravitate toward Jeffersonian multicultural democracy once Saddam was removed was a ridiculous idea?
 
and yes, you did say something that led me to ask that question... you seemed to defend the actions of the victorious europeans in their partitioning plan for the former Ottoman empire.
 
NOVA said:
I had a feeling that damn ignorant Christians were to blame for everything, they usually are, right.

Let 'em kill each other, rape their women, and destroy themselves....

I'm through feeling sorry for women getting stoned and the little girls forced to screw old men....time to realize,

we can't win 'em all.....maybe be could help them get it all over with....

We must have been nuts thinking they were actually better than barbarians....
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"
I had a feeling that damn ignorant Christians were to blame for everything"

Take your time an explain why the Christians are at fault...

After all you are a Right Winger and know about Christianity and I don't because in your eyes I'm a Left Winger when I state Im a Right Winger.

"I'm through feeling sorry for women getting stoned and the little girls forced to screw old men....time to realize,

we can't win 'em all....." Well yea, you cant win when you are Libertarian. Because of a false perspective.

Libertarians and Tea Party are NO different than the Barbarians. It's the absolute definition of Conservative. Those who do not want change in any way/shape or form.
 
maineman said:
and yes, you did say something that led me to ask that question... you seemed to defend the actions of the victorious europeans in their partitioning plan for the former Ottoman empire.
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No, I afraid it was you that brought up partitioning of the Ottoman empire....the Ottoman empire never entered my mind....

Anyway, those 'victorious Europeans' I guess, made the same mistake in thinking those animals were more then animals....am I being too harsh....:)
 
NOVA said:
No, I afraid it was you that brought up partitioning of the Ottoman empire....the Ottoman empire never entered my mind....

Anyway, those 'victorious Europeans' I guess, made the same mistake in thinking those animals were more then animals....am I being too harsh....:)
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why did we spend all that time and waste all those lives trying to bring Jeffersonian democracy to the banks of the Euphrates? The partitioning of the Ottoman Empire CREATED Iraq. The Iraqi people had no role in the creation of their own country. Why did Dubya think they'd jump at the chance to adopt our form of government?

the fact that the partitioning of the Ottoman empire never entered your mind is proof that you really have no idea as to the antecedents of the conflict there. Why am I not surprised?
 
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