Iran: time for America to face baseless fears

[Taft2016]

If you don't get riled up all on your own by civilans being gassed in their beds at night then you are a sociopath

Ahhh, the time honored "Desh False Premise."

I can't get riled up against anyone until I know for sure who did it.

And I'm not inclined to create an equivalency between gassing 1000 people within one's own borders and nuking another country.

 

[evince]

your a fucking sociopath

 

[anatta]

Because you incredibly dense asshat; I believed that if you are going to eject a megolamaniacical despot from Kuwait and force him to agree to sanctions, you actually have to enforce them.

In addition you incredibly dense asshat with zero historical knowledge; I believed that the lesson of 911 was that you cannot fight terrorism from within your own country and the best deterrent to terrorism was Democracy, prosperity and education. After five decades of failure trying to negotiate and buy off terrorists and despots, I figured this was a better tactic.

But again, you are an incredibly dense uninformed asshat who couldn't begin to comprehend the wisdom in that. You're more inclined to empty headedly parrotting of terrorist propaganda and moronic DNC talking points.

Carry on asshat.

some truth to all this - although 'democracy" is not a goal ,but a means to an end. I do agree with education and prosperity -something to look to other then radical Islam

Democracy in Egypt - led to the Muslim Brotherhood - should Egypt simply have left them drag the state under ( Sinai terrorists/lousy economy/ piss poor governance)

We are not fighting terrorism abroad by perpetual war; while I have no problem with a counter-terrorism, the strategy of the counter insurgency under Bush

and continued/escalated by Obama in AfPak was doomed to failure - given the nature of Afganistan.

 

[Truth Detector]

poor dick lips forgot his memes are bumping into each other again.

Hey you brain dead troll....You don't like Democracy remember

Hey incredibly stupid asshat; stop trolling threads with tour incredibly stupid nonsense removing all doubt as to what an incredibly stupid lying asshat you are.

 

[evince]

You don't get to chose who tries democracy or not

 

[Truth Detector]

are you that stupid? It's a realistic view of Khamenei.
You know; the real power in Iran?

did you check out the link? She seems to have a level head. As to my religion, it's manifest in my Sig line..

I read it as an incredibly naive propaganda piece that history will prove as naive, dense and nothing more than propaganda.

Iran is a pariah State run by dictators. The notion that one can reason or negotiate with such people suggests an incredible historical naïveté.

But again I ask; are you a Muslim?

 

[evince]

just keep chanting bomb bomb bomb Iran

it worked so well for McCain huh

 

[anatta]

I read it as an incredibly naive propaganda piece that history will prove as naive, dense and nothing more than propaganda.

Iran is a pariah State run by dictators. The notion that one can reason or negotiate with such people suggests an incredible historical naïveté.

But again I ask; are you a Muslim?

LOL. are you a neo-con? The piece is factual, gives a good look at Iran's internal power shifts (among the players)

Hard to see 'propaganda" value in the truth....One can simply shun Iran as we have done since '79, or w can engage, and recognize the Shiite Crescent is as valid as the Sunni Crescent.

Let the region go through their re-alignment by the region itself -let the US be an arbitor; not turning away from Jordan/ the Gulf States, and SA, and Isreal;

but not considering Iran the Evil Satan -in other words realpolitik.

the Iranian peopel are cosmopolitan at least in Tehran , while their leadership is a theocratic - so look for accomodation/ negotitation where possible..
Again look at my sig - see if you can figure out my religious inclination.

 

[Truth Detector]

some truth to all this - although 'democracy" is not a goal ,but a means to an end. I do agree with education and prosperity -something to look to other then radical Islam

Democracy in Egypt - led to the Muslim Brotherhood - should Egypt simply have left them drag the state under ( Sinai terrorists/lousy economy/ piss poor governance)

We are not fighting terrorism abroad by perpetual war; while I have no problem with a counter-terrorism, the strategy of the counter insurgency under Bush

and continued/escalated by Obama in AfPak was doomed to failure - given the nature of Afganistan.

Addressing Egypt; you cannot say that you believe in Democracy and then after an election, one where the predictions of the Muslin Brotherhood proved true, support an overthrow of those elected by a military regime.

Did Egyptians make a mistake? Perhaps. Did the west naively believe their own inept talking points regarding the Muslim Brotherhood? Absolutely.

The irony in Egypt was that they pinned their societal failures on Mubarak whom they imprisoned for perceived undemocratic actions and subverting the efforts of the Muskim Brotherhood, only to imprison the rightfully elected leader of the Muslim Brotherhood using the military to subvert democracy.

Again, Liberals in the West were perfectly willing to swallow such naive beliefs and terrorist propaganda in the incredibly naive and false proposition that one can reason and talk to despots, dictators and terrorists.

The world had an incredible opportunity for ending the mess in the Middle East once and for all by supporting Bush's efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan. But unfortunately, and due to partisanship, they refused to and chose instead to engage in grand standing, America bashing and impugn Bush's efforts in this false and naive notion that the people can rise up and shed the shackles of dictators without help.

 

[anatta]

Addressing Egypt; you cannot say that you believe in Democracy and then after an election, one where the predictions of the Muslin Brotherhood proved true, support an overthrow of those elected by a military regime.

Did Egyptians make a mistake? Perhaps. Did the west naively believe their own inept talking points regarding the Muslim Brotherhood? Absolutely.

The irony in Egypt was that they pinned their societal failures on Mubarak whom they imprisoned for perceived undemocratic actions and subverting the efforts of the Muskim Brotherhood, only to imprison the rightfully elected leader of the Muslim Brotherhood using the military to subvert democracy.

Again, Liberals in the West is perfectly willing to swallow such naive beliefs and terrorist propaganda in the incredibly naive and false proposition that one can reason and talk to despots, dictators and terrorists.

The world had an incredible opportunity for ending the mess in the Middle East once and for all by supporting Bush's efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan. But unfortunately, and due to partisanship, they refused to and chose instead to engage in grand standing, America bashing and impugn Bush's efforts in this false and naive notion that the people can rise up and shed the shackles of dictators without help.

how about letting Egypt determine it's own destiney? without condemenation , or rhetoric from the US?

I know, I know.... a radical idea after years of US "dizzying interventionism" -Iraq/Afpak/Yemen(civil war)/ and almost Syria.
Wait - we are still arming the rebels - still "interventionism"

There was nothing to "support"in Iraq - we fractured a state, and the state is still fractured -same with Libya -a fractured state now run by warlords and militia rule.

What is the gain -the loss is apparent

Dude; you need to look at the world with something else beside US/western glasses

 

[Truth Detector]

LOL. are you a neo-con? The piece is factual, gives a good look at Iran's internal power shifts (among the players)

Hard to see 'propaganda" value in the truth....One can simply shun Iran as we have done since '79, or w can engage, and recognize the Shiite Crescent is as valid as the Sunni Crescent.

Let the region go through their re-alignment by the region itself -let the US be an arbitor; not turning away from Jordan/ the Gulf States, and SA, and Isreal;

but not considering Iran the Evil Satan -in other words realpolitik.

the Iranian peopel are cosmopolitan at least in Tehran , while their leadership is a theocratic - so look for accomodation/ negotitation where possible..
Again look at my sig - see if you can figure out my religious inclination.

It is not neo-con; it's called reality. There was no change in Iranian terrorism in this last election. It is naive to prescribe change where none has or will occur.
.
The people running things in Iran are the same brutal Imams who have been running things since the Islamic revolution; not the President. It is painfully naive to pin any hopes of change as a result of this last Iranian election.

I ask again; are you Muslim?

 

[evince]

see the hate filled idiocy which is the go to mode of the right?


they are reverting right back to the idiocy of the Pre 911 mindframe "just ignore the world ...what could happen?"

 

[anatta]

It is not neo-con; it's called reality. There was no change in Iranian terrorism in this last election. It is naive to prescribe change where none has or will occur.
.
The people running things in Iran are the same brutal Imams who have been running things since the Islamic revolution; not the President. It is painfully naive to pin any hopes of change as a result of this last Iranian election.

I ask again; are you Muslim?

you mention Iranian terrorism -how about SUNNI Terrorism? The cauldron of Syria is filled with foreign jihadists, as well as Al Nusra -native to Syria.

I am of Buddhist inclination -the sig line is a classic mantra.

 

[Truth Detector]

how about letting Egypt determine it's own destiney? without condemenation , or rhetoric from the US?
I know, I know.... a radical idea after years of US "dizzying interventionism" -Iraq/Afpak/Yemen(civil war)/ and almost Syria.
Wait -we are still arming the rebels -still "interventionism"

What an amazingly naïve and historically ignorant claim. The US has been the least interventionist in this region up and until 9-11.
When has Egypt ever determined its own destiny? When the Ottoman Empire ruled over it? When the Imperialists of England ruled over her? How about when the Communist Soviet Union armed her?

But again, left to her own destiny and attempting democracy has so far proven an incredibly failure and proof that under Mubarak, things were much better. Rather ironic don’t you think?

There was nothing to "support"in Iraq - we fractured a state, and the state is still fractured -same with Libya -a fractured state now run by warlods and militia rule.

Another amusingly naïve and ignorant historical perspective on Iraq; perhaps you are not well educated?

Iraq was created by the imperial powers of Europe in their efforts to destroy the Ottoman Empire. Saddam was a brutal dictatorial thug who controlled the nation through terror. It has always been a “fractured” state and ruled by “warlords.”

In our efforts along with 34 other nations, we assisted the Iraqi people in setting up a representative government for the very first time in their pathetic history. Now, after all the blood and sweat of our efforts, our idiot of a President is perfectly willing to pull out and allow the slow predictable decline of the Iraqi Government into a military or Islamic dictatorship.

I cannot imagine a more clueless foreign policy or naïve perspective on the Middle East than Obamas.

What is the gain -the loss is apparent
Dude; you need to look at the world with something else beside US/western glasses

You need to look at the world with something else besides terrorist propaganda.

 

[anatta]

thanks for the historical background on the Ottoman Empire - the operative phrase here:

The US has been the least interventionist in this region up and until 9-11.

is what we are talking about, not the carving up of the ME under British mandate -etc.

Looking back, ican't recall when the USSR was effectively kicked out of Egypt - the Sinai accords come to mind, and that was a good while ago.
Why this is relevant is beyond my idea. Russia has a client state in Syria -so what?

I don't really get your debate here, other then to suggest 9-11 changed the dynamics of US interventionism -yes it did -we agree there.

Where we disagree is the effectivity of post 9-11 wars - again not like hiting the terrorists camps in Afg, and NOT trying to build a nationstate, would have been fine with me.

It didn't work out so well did it? Unless you think the Taliban will not return to power there.

We do agree Obama's foreign policy is a disaster -he was following Bush's lead, in Afgan.

I wouldn't even mind some dronage in Yemen, but not the INTEL we use - farmers calling in "AQ types", and the lackety gov't there clinging to power thru the US in their civil war.