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The Almighty
My Dad's company shifted him down there for a couple years to get it up to speed. Met Clinton in 78.
Interesting read
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My Dad's company shifted him down there for a couple years to get it up to speed. Met Clinton in 78.
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Darla
That's pretty cool Sf since there is no way you could have known you were meeting a future President.
Bfgrn
New member
For good reason. The Warren Commission was a hoax. I suggest you do some research before you emote any more. Start with the taped conversations between LBJ and J Edgar Hoover. Here's a question to contemplate...if Oswald acted alone, why would someone impersonate Oswald and visit the Soviet embassy in Mexico City two months before the assassination?
http://www.history-matters.com/frameup.htm
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Darla
I never delved into this. I never even wanted to. It's not that I don't think that conspiracies have happened, they have. And also, often what appears to be a conspiracy is just a group of people acting independently of each other for their own self-serving purposes. I think that I got very turned off to this sort of thing though because of my experience with the 9/11 truthers. They have papers and videos and all kinds of stuff "proving" that 9/11 was an inside job complete with explosives in the WTC and a missile hitting the Pentagon. I used to have bad fights with them and I did everything I could to keep them out of my chapter of CP when I was in the peace movement. I didn't want them there. Some of them swear that "The Jews" were all warned. Meanwhile my best friend for my whole life is Jewish and she worked across the street at Deutsche bank and she got caught right in it. She was down on the street from when the first plane hit and had to escape and saw bodies land all around her, and she had PTSD to the point that she had to leave the city and move back to LI.
And ever since then I just am turned off by this sort of thing, rightly or wrongly, and I don't find these official looking papers and sites at all credible.
cawacko
Well-known member
Just had a chance to read the article. This makes me REALLY REALLY want to read Caro's new book about this time period. I don't know if he'll delve into this atmosphere of the time as described in this article but I hope he does, especially with LBJ's Texas roots and connections. Really fascinating.
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Darla
I know, it's very exciting that it's coming out in only a few months now! I should go back and read the last few chapters of Master of the Senate to see where he left off. In fact maybe i will just reread the whole book before the 4th volume is released.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Oh trust me. Ford pissed off lots of people when he pardoned Nixon. Talk about a profile in courage. Politicians are not in the habit of making decisions that will end their political careers. Ford did. It was the right decision too. Nixon was by far and away the worst President of the last 50 years. He was an unrepentant liar, bordered on the verge of mentally ill with his parania, committed criminal acts and had a blatant disregard for the rule of law and the US Constitution. When Ford pardoned Nixon there's was a climate of complete outrage that Nixon was getting let off the hook for the crimes he committed. Massive numbers of people were seriously....and I mean seriously pissed off at Ford. But from both a practical and pragmatic point of view, it was time for this nation to move on. To put the travesty that was the Nixon years behind and to bind the nations wounds. Ford may have pissed off a lot of people when he pardoned Nixon and he may have ended his political career by doing so but he did the right thing. He allowed the nation to move on and put that rotten episode behing us and it allowed our national wounds to begin healing. For that, we owe Ford much gratitude for putting his nations ineterest ahead of his own poltical carreer. So yea....Ford pissed a lot of people off. In that day when most middle class Americans were union democrats, Nixon was hated and reviled and I can clearly remember the ranting and raving when my father and uncles and grandfather found out that Ford had actually pardoned Nixon. Oh God were they pissed!
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Darla
Oh geez I forgot about the pardon. And I did not know there was this kind of widespread outrage at the time. That's interesting.
I have to say Mott, I have an entirely different opinion about that. I think that if Nixon had been impeached we wouldn't have had Iran/Contra and we wouldn't have had torture either. We wouldn't have been saddled with the criminals of the Nixon administration in the Bush II administration. Cheney would not have dared to flout the rule of law by torturing and if Cheney had not dared to, there are many things Obama would not dare to do. There's been a real chain reaction from not prosecuting Nixon. Would even the bankers have dared to do what they did?
Interesting that you brought that up and I can't believe I forgot about it. I have to plead shock that SF posted something interesting. He really threw me off my game with that surprise move.
I have to say Mott, I have an entirely different opinion about that. I think that if Nixon had been impeached we wouldn't have had Iran/Contra and we wouldn't have had torture either. We wouldn't have been saddled with the criminals of the Nixon administration in the Bush II administration. Cheney would not have dared to flout the rule of law by torturing and if Cheney had not dared to, there are many things Obama would not dare to do. There's been a real chain reaction from not prosecuting Nixon. Would even the bankers have dared to do what they did?
Interesting that you brought that up and I can't believe I forgot about it. I have to plead shock that SF posted something interesting. He really threw me off my game with that surprise move.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Freaks opinion on Carter is colored by the mythology he's been spoon fed by the right wing about Carter. His comments about Carter's inability to handle the economic mess he inherited, just as his opinion of Obama, is utter non-sense. Carter inherited the Nixonian caused period of stagflation caused by Nixon's inept handling of domestic policy as well as critical errors Nixon made in foreign policy (i.e. the arab oil embargo). Carter's appointment of Paul Volcker and his adoption of Volkers advice (which by the way Reagan continued) is what ended that period of stagflation and Carter took a substantial political hit for implementing some very unpopular policies. Ones that worked and eventually ended the Nixonian induced period of stagflation.
Carter's failures as a president predominantly had to do with two things political in nature. The political tone he set which was pesimistic and conveyed a message of self sacrifice and lowered expectations for the future. His second failure was that Carter ran as a Washington outsider and when elected he brought in his outside the beltway gang from Georgia and he immeadiatly alienated the inside the beltway power brokers both within Congress, the Federal Bueuracracy and with the lobbyist. It rendered his legislative agenda impotent and made him ineffective as a chief executive. So when Reagan came along with his unbridled optimism and his superior communication skills he was able to pull the rug right out from under Carters feet. You can get a good example of this from going to youtube and watching the debate between Carter and Reagan. On almost every policy topic they debated and with the advantage of 30 years of hindsight on point after point on policy Carter was right and his criticisms of Reagans policies were spot on. However, you'll also note that Carter's negativity and his apparent lack of conviction turned people off and gave the strong impression that Reagan had won the debate and the electoral results bear that out.
Now I realize that Freak will have all sorts of criticisms with this analysis about Carter but I was there and he wasn't. I lived through this era, he did not. Carter came along as an outsider who promised that he would avoid foreign entanglements and destructive insider DC politics and that he would focus on domestic policy. It was what the American people wanted to hear at the time after the debacle Nixon caused and it got him elected. It was his failings that I listed above when confronted with a master a communicator that was his downfall and cost him re-election.
So knowing this all you have to do is note the legislative accomplishments of the Obama administration and the comparisons to Carter fall down. That's just wish full thinking by the right wing and unfortunately for them they don't have anyone in the wings with even remotely close to the charisma that Ronald Reagan had.
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Bfgrn
New member
The two events are unrelated and should not be lumped together. I have delved into the JFK assassination. The physical, ballistic and forensic evidence alone eliminate Oswald as the lone gunman. The laws of physic always apply. They didn't take a vacation at 12:30 CST on 11/22/63.
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Darla
Thanks Mott, I'm going to watch those debates. I have to say I'm woefully ignorant of this period, and there's no excuse for that. I guess I never found Carter or Nixon compelling. I do know more about Reagan since I have read several books about him. But watching the Carter Reagan debates is a great idea. I should definitely know this stuff. It's not like I was too young to remember Carter, and yet, I don't remember Carter. I have no memory of Carter being President. It's really weird. I think my earliest political memory is of Reagan being inaugurated and all of the hoopla over the hostages. But even that is vague. I think I lived much of my life in a fugue state...and then came the internet. Now I can only wish I was in a fugue state.
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Darla
Well it's something I'd have to read myself and make my own determination, I'm not going to take someone else's word for this kind of thing. And considering how I feel about the conspiracy sites/books/videos, that's just not going to happen. You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, and for all I know you are 100% right.
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The Almighty
Had I known then what I know now, I probably would have kicked him as hard in the nuts as I could.... is that wrong?
Bfgrn
New member
I find it interesting that the JFK assassination has been consistently tied to other conspiracies. The History Channel did a 'documentary' on 9/11. They spent the first hour portraying 'conspiracy theorists' (Pearl Harbor, JFK, 9/11) as some form of mental illness. The so called 'experts' were from Popular Mechanics' no less...
The facts of the JFK assassination never change, just the spin. Newton's first law of motion states: An object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force.
A bullet traveling at a downward trajectory cannot enter the back of the President at the level of the 3rd thoracic vertebra, exit from an anterior wound 6 inches higher, and magically regain a downward trajectory after exiting the President's throat.
You are being pressured to conform and not think on your own...very successfully...
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The Almighty
LOL... the only one 'emoting' is you. You claimed once again that I said something that I did not. Typical bullshit strawman. I then clarified for you that I hadn't stated that. Again, the memo you cut and paste is largely irrelevant as it was written three days after the assassination. As I stated, there have been hundreds if not thousands of books on the investigation. The conspiracies have all been delved into time and time again. no matter how many times you stamp your feet, that will not change.
So once again, thanks for proving your cut and paste philosophy is nothing short of absurd. You don't even care if it relates to what is being discussed. If someone questions you on it, you create a typical Cypress like Straw man. You are once again proving just how much like that pathetic fool you are.
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The Almighty
On that issue, you are correct. That did piss a lot of people off. Other than that though, he really didn't have the personality or policies that did. He took the hit for the good of the country. Whether they knew it or like it or not. Like Reagan, he did the right thing, despite the political cost.
apple0154
MEOW
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The Almighty
LMAO.... you proclaim my knowledge of Carter is of myth, when in fact you display nothing but nonsense regarding Carter.
1) Carter did not inherit an economic mess. He MADE one. We have had this argument before and everytime I post all the data PROVING he did not inherit a mess, you RUN AWAY like the fucking coward you are.
2) As I have shown you in the past.... Carter did implement Volckers plan and then a few months later REVERSED course because of the political hit he was taking. HE, like you, was a coward. He put his reelection ahead of the good of the country.... JUST AS OBAMA IS NOW DOING.
3) GDP Growth was 5.4% in 1976, 4.6% in 1977, 5.6% in 1978, 3.1% in 1979, -0.3% in 1980. So tell us moron.... how can you proclaim he inherited stagflation? Let me guess... time for you to run away again?
4) Unemployment to start 1975 was at 8.1%, by the time Carter took over in 1977 it was at 7.6% and falling. It fell to a low of 5.7% in 1979. It then finished at 7.2% and rising as Reagan took office.
5) Unemployment spiked hard when REAGAN actually implemented AND STUCK WITH Volckers plan. Reagan took the pain and the Reps got their ass kicked in 1982 mid terms as a result.
Try learning the FACTS instead of the MYTHS YOU WERE SPOON FED.
1) I lived through Carter, though this is a pathetic reason to discount the FACTS of the matter. Never let the FACTS get in the way of your nonsense, right Mott? Because everytime I list the FACTS.... you run away. As you will again this time. Never debate the FACTS will you Mott. Just spout nonsense and then run away.
2) Carter was seen as a weak leader by foreign governments and the people here as well. He lacked a backbone. He refused, much like Obama, to ever make the tough call. He was a one-termer for that reason.
The problem for Obama is that too many people don't see his 'accomplishments' as you do. You who drink massive amounts of kool-aid, still think Obama care is a great idea. Despite the FACT that his own admin people just proclaimed one of the largest 'savings' portions of it was not economically viable. How do you justify that Mott? One of the major 'reducers of the deficit' wasn't itself economically viable??? Hmmm.... not such an accomplishment.
What else has he done Mott? Unemployment still at 9%? Yeah, great! But he did manage to give out billions to his top donors for the supposed green jobs they would create. Yeah for cronyism!!!
I do agree that none of the Reps are anywhere close to the charisma of Reagan (or Clinton for that matter).
apple0154
MEOW
First of all, ObamaCare is a step in the right direction. As for not being sustainable there are countries geographically large and small, densely and sparsely populated, rich and poor, socialist and capitalist and they all have government medical and the costs are approximately 1/3 less than the US/pp. To say the richest country in the world can not look after it's ill is not only absurd but the deaths of 45,000/yr due to a lack of proper medical care makes a mockery of a nation that supposedly prides itself on the value it puts on human life.
Bfgrn
New member
The memo is very relevant to the question of whether Oswald was the lone assassin. You criticize me for the copy and paste of facts, but are you able to think for yourself? Do you believe Oswald acted alone?