Insane Obama and Dems Climate Plan now to cost $2 TRILLION

[Bonestorm]

More specifically what you mean by no government cost is in cap and trade itself but the results, which mean higher energy prices, you are saying will have to be subsidized by the government through tax credits for poor folk.

It's not complicated. Dano writes as though the alleged "$2 trillion cost" means $2T in increased government spending. It doesn't.

Cap and trade (if done properly) would result in an increase in government revenues which can then be used to offset the cost on low-income energy consumers.

 

[cawacko]

It's not complicated. Dano writes as though the alleged "$2 trillion cost" means $2T in increased government spending. It doesn't.

Cap and trade (if done properly) would result in an increase in government revenues which can then be used to offset the cost on low-income energy consumers.

That's coming from a big government, more government involvement in the economy perspective.

To the market it means higher electrical costs more inefficiencies and waste than already exist.

 

[NOVA]

I'm so sick of you people that I just cant even muster reading your horseshit anymore.

Do you have any idea how much money you cheered the spending of that did nothing but got Americans killed, distroyed our economy and made us a paria in the world?

Do you have even a inclining of how much money this economic fiasco cost the "industry" you are talking about?

You guys are massive failures for this country, just shut up and let the adults fix everything MMMKAY?

Why don't you just FORMAT C: so we don't have to see your same old lies day after day...

 

[KingCondanomation]

It's not complicated. Dano writes as though the alleged "$2 trillion cost" means $2T in increased government spending. It doesn't.

Cap and trade (if done properly) would result in an increase in government revenues which can then be used to offset the cost on low-income energy consumers.

Bullshit that is a lie, I said how much extra will it cost, NOT how much extra would need to be spent. In this case the "cost" is a very steep increase in the cost of government expenditures for things like roads for example, as well the cost will be including the loss of government revenue where the extra costs of business complying with these onerous extra regulations would mean eating into the profit margin of the companies you love to tax from. Moreover there will be SOME business failures and SOME job losses from that - again increasing government expenditures directly in areas like unemployment insurance and indirectly in government benefit expenditures like Medicaid.

The cost of doing nothing IS nothing, you must remember that this is the year wherein those who believed that manmade CO2 emissions were responsible for warming were debunked. CO2 has gone up, worldwide temperatures have gone down.
Those who predicted a cooling based on sunspot monitoring were dead on:
http://ideonexus.com/2008/02/13/sun-spot-cycle-prompts-fears-of-global-cooling/

"No matter how disastrously some policy has turned out, anyone who criticizes it can expect to hear: "But what would you replace it with?" When you put out a fire, what do you replace it with?" – Thomas Sowell

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Dano calling someone else insane... hilarious.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

3 times the original estimate, get ready to pay a lot more for a lot more things. I'm sure strict regulation of irrelevant CO2 will really help to lure and entice business with jobs, there's nothing companies like more than to pay more.

What a waste and terrible direction.

"President Obama's climate plan could cost industry close to $2 trillion, nearly three times the White House's initial estimate of the so-called "cap-and-trade" legislation, according to Senate staffers who were briefed by the White House.

A top economic aide to Mr. Obama told a group of Senate staffers last month that the president's climate-change plan would surely raise more than the $646 billion over eight years the White House had estimated publicly, according to multiple a number of staffers who attended the briefing Feb. 26.

"We all looked at each other like, 'Wow, that's a big number,'" said a top Republican staffer who attended the meeting along with between 50 and 60 other Democratic and Republican congressional aides.

The plan seeks to reduce pollution by setting a limit on carbon emissions and allowing businesses and groups to buy allowances, although exact details have not been released.

At the meeting, Jason Furman, a top Obama staffer, estimated that the president's cap-and-trade program could cost up to three times as much as the administration's early estimate of $646 billion over eight years. A study of an earlier cap-and-trade bill co-sponsored by Mr. Obama when he was a senator estimated the cost could top $366 billion a year by 2015. "
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/mar/18/obama-climate-plan-could-cost-2-trillion/

FUCK YOU

 

[Cancel10]

"President Obama's climate plan could cost industry close to $2 trillion, nearly three times the White House's initial estimate of the so-called "cap-and-trade" legislation, according to Senate staffers who were briefed by the White House.

This proposal reeks of fascism.

It is invasive, unconstitutional, un-American, and will do nothing to reverse global warming. Why? Because global warming is a myth propagated by socialists with the purpose of destroying capitalism. It's a lie, a colossal hoax.

Obama and his minions know very little of freedom. They are no different from the religious right, seeking to control every aspect of our lives.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

This proposal reeks of fascism.

It is invasive, unconstitutional, un-American, and will do nothing to reverse global warming. Why? Because global warming is a myth propagated by socialists with the purpose of destroying capitalism. It's a lie, a colossal hoax.

Obama and his minions know very little of freedom. They are no different from the religious right, seeking to control every aspect of our lives.

Keep on saying enough, you fascists, and it will become true. You fascist freedom-haters disgust me. You won't stop until all of us is dead, until you control every aspect of our lives.

 

[Cancel10]

Keep on saying enough, you fascists, and it will become true. You fascist freedom-haters disgust me. You won't stop until all of us is dead, until you control every aspect of our lives.

It saddens me that one could grow up in America and yet know so little of our founding heritage.

Why are you so obsessed with controlling the lives of others?

 

[Topspin]

I'm not sure of another issue dems are more wrong on.
What other country restricts drilling?

 

[tinfoil]

You're right it doesn't. But it's effect will be to jack up energy costs for Americans, especially the "needy" Americans who may not be able to heat their homes during the winter because of the cost of electrcity.

Do you honestly believe assholes like dungheap give a shit?

 

[tinfoil]

1) Yes, I am right. And Dano is an idiot.

2) Increases in energy costs for low-income households would be recouped through tax credits under the Obama plan.

3) Any assessment of the cost of a cap and trade program must take into account the costs of doing nothing.

Some guy who's already poor pays almost no taxes anyway. What kind of help will a tax credit be if he's paid no tax? You clearly have zero understanding of taxes. What an idiot.

 

[tinfoil]

It's not complicated. Dano writes as though the alleged "$2 trillion cost" means $2T in increased government spending. It doesn't.

Cap and trade (if done properly) would result in an increase in government revenues which can then be used to offset the cost on low-income energy consumers.

you're so stupid you just spout rhetoric without even seeing the flaws. Learn some math and economics so you can understand that if you pay no taxes, you will not get anything in the form of a tax rebate.

 

[tinfoil]

Bob makes X and pays no taxes
Bob makes X and pays no taxes+ bob pays more for gas+bob gets to reduce his taxes by cost of gas

Bob has a negative taxable income. If bob paid taxes last year(he's poor, he didn't) then he can ammend his return and get that tax back. but if he paid no taxes for the preceeding three years, he has no taxes to ammend and the deduction is worthless. He can carry it foward, but if he pays no taxes in the future, the deduction is worthless as well and the following years deduction continue to stack up in a worthless pile until he makes enough money to owe some taxes and can then use the deductions.

 

[Bonestorm]

you're so stupid you just spout rhetoric without even seeing the flaws. Learn some math and economics so you can understand that if you pay no taxes, you will not get anything in the form of a tax rebate.

Everybody that works pays taxes. Some have no income tax liability, but they pay payroll taxes. And if tax credits don't suit you, expanding the Low Income Heating Assistance Program is another viable option.

 

[tinfoil]

Everybody that works pays taxes. Some have no income tax liability, but they pay payroll taxes. And if tax credits don't suit you, expanding the Low Income Heating Assistance Program is another viable option.

social security taxes and income taxes are different. learn the difference. You don't get to reduce SS taxes

 

[Bonestorm]

Bob makes X and pays no taxes
Bob makes X and pays no taxes+ bob pays more for gas+bob gets to reduce his taxes by cost of gas

Bob has a negative taxable income. If bob paid taxes last year(he's poor, he didn't) then he can ammend his return and get that tax back. but if he paid no taxes for the preceeding three years, he has no taxes to ammend and the deduction is worthless. He can carry it foward, but if he pays no taxes in the future, the deduction is worthless as well and the following years deduction continue to stack up in a worthless pile until he makes enough money to owe some taxes and can then use the deductions.

"Bob pays no taxes" is a non-starter. If Bob works he pays payroll taxes.

 

[Bonestorm]

social security taxes and income taxes are different. learn the difference. You don't get to reduce SS taxes

You do if the government says you do.

 

[tinfoil]

"Bob pays no taxes" is a non-starter. If Bob works he pays payroll taxes.

what part of income taxes are you too dumb to understand?
the two types of taxes are different. And if you believe they're going to reduce payroll taxes, you're even dumber than you sound.

 

[tinfoil]

Hey dungheap. take a look at the tax form next time. You get to reduce your taxable income by the amounts you paid to FICA.
I'm very aware of this stuff since I've paid double into FICA since I'm self employed.