Indiana GOP Rep Thinks Women Will Fake Rape Or Incest To Get An Abortion

Ice Dancer said:
No, what it is, is that you are determined to make sure women can kill their children. It IS the very worst in mankind when said mankind can kill 1 million unborn children a year for the convenience of someone- and defend their actions based on some subjective ideas of who they are. Planned Parenthood earns a profit from killing children inside their mother's womb. If they want to provide screenings and birth control they ought to be required to separate the two entities if they are to continue receiving federal funds...
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Do you really believe fellow Americans who work to help women are people determined to kill children? Could you create a bigger monster ID? You really need to take a step back and think about how absurd and sick that is.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
Well, I've found one factual error in the article ID cut-n-pasted.

The article claims that "In an interview published March 17 in the Texas Tribune, Ms. Richards spoke at length about all the healthcare PPFA provides: "We see 3 million patients each year across the country. For 97 percent of them, we provide preventive care. Three percent are abortions."

Yet according to PPFA's own March 2011 Planned Parenthood Services fact sheet, 332,278 abortions were performed on some of PPFA's three million clients in the year ending June 30, 2009. This suggests that eleven percent of their clients had abortions in that year, not three percent. But the best measure of how important abortions are to PPFA's bottom line is the fact that abortions produce at least 37 percent of PPFA revenues "by very conservative estimates."[1]"

So PP only sees 3,000,000 patients a year? What happens to the 3,000,001ST patient to try and received services?

Sure the numbers come out the way ID posted, IF PP ONLY SAW 3,000,000 patients a year, but as the March 2011 Planned Parenthood Services fact sheet they like to quote points out, PPFA provided services to MORE THAN 11 MILLION PATIENTS IN 09.

So PP did in fact provide roughly only 3% of their patients with an abortion.
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Planned-Parenthood-Abortions-Adoptions-245x300.gif
 
Bfgrn said:
Do you really believe fellow Americans who work to help women are people determined to kill children? Could you create a bigger monster ID? You really need to take a step back and think about how absurd and sick that is.
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And why are we surprised that human beings would do such a thing? Do you not live on this planet? Do you not observe constanly how grudging the human person is at doing the right thing? The 20th Century alone is a textbook of human cruelty and murder.
 
King of Reason said:
The monster exists, ID didn't "create" it. Sick is as sick does, Forrest.
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Yes, a monster does exist. It is ignorance.

It is the ignorance that exists in the minds of people like ID and you who confound good and evil. It is the ignorance of people like ID and you who take an organization dedicated to prevent unwanted pregnancies and protect women's health, and turn it into an organization that wants to kill babies. The FACTS are 97% of what Planned Parenthood does is prevention, education and health services for women. Planned Parenthood prevents millions of abortions by providing contraception and education to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Planned Parenthood saves the lives of women, by providing vital health services, breast exams, Pap tests, tests and treatments for sexually transmitted infections, including HIV.

3% of what they do is abortion services. Because prevention and education does not prevent all unwanted pregnancies, nor will it prevent some women from choosing to have an abortion, which is LEGAL and LAWFUL. Did you right wing fascists FORGET we are a nation of laws, not men???

Here is what the ignorant right wing mind is totally incapable of comprehending. If you make abortion illegal, and/or shut down helpful services like Planned Parenthood, abortions will NOT end; women's LIVES WILL end.

You want REAL monsters...educate yourself on what happened when abortion was illegal.

Back-Alley Abortions
The prohibition of legal abortion from the 1880s until 1973 came under the same anti-obscenity or Comstock laws that prohibited the dissemination of birth control information and services.

Criminalization of abortion did not reduce the numbers of women who sought abortions. In the years before Roe v. Wade, the estimates of illegal abortions ranged as high as 1.2 million per year. Although accurate records could not be kept, it is known that between the 1880s and 1973, many thousands of women were harmed as a result of illegal abortion.

Many women died or suffered serious medical problems after attempting to self-induce their abortions or going to untrained practitioners who performed abortions with primitive methods or in unsanitary conditions. During this time, hospital emergency room staff treated thousands of women who either died or were suffering terrible effects of abortions provided without adequate skill and care.

One that confounds good and evil is an enemy to good.
Edmund Burke
 
Ice Dancer said:
Yes, Apple, but it neither indicated if they had access to contraception or what their age was, only that they acted irresponsible. The point of course is that the key ingredient to unintended pregnancy is irresponsibility; again pointing to the number one reason women have abortions is due to convenience. Targeting a group of women who are too selfish to be responsible, yet choose instead to take the time to have an abortion, seems a bit fruitless...but target away as I am all for preventing abortions.
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They may be irresponsible but the sex drive is governed by hormones. Look at the actions of athletes who take hormone injections such as testosterone. They become impulsive, sometimes leading to violence. That impulsive nature is present in young people due to hormones. They do not "stop and think" anymore than the athlete who flies into a rage. The point being they are not thinking, "Oh, well. If I become pregnant I can always get an abortion." They are not thinking much past what they are feeling so the more prepared they are at the time, meaning having condoms with them, the more likely they will use them and that's where constant reminders come in.

One thing that contributes to high rates of teen pregnancy is lack of supervision due to both parents working. Society has changes over the years, yet, some people still hold on to the old ideas. While advertizing birth control and mentioning sex was not proper years ago we have to realize times have changed.
 
Bfgrn said:
During this time, hospital emergency room staff treated thousands of women who either died or were suffering terrible effects of abortions provided without adequate skill and care.
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CDC statistics show fewer than than 300 women a year died from illegal abortions in the 70s, not a significant difference with the women who died giving birth.......high numbers existed before penicillin was discovered, but there were equally high numbers of deaths in live births before penicillin was discovered.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
CDC statistics show fewer than than 300 women a year died from illegal abortions in the 70s, not a significant difference with the women who died giving birth.......high numbers existed before penicillin was discovered, but there were equally high numbers of deaths in live births before penicillin was discovered.....
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So, the unwarranted DEATH of women is not significant because the 'numbers' not significant enough...interesting set of values. Penicillin is not a 1970's innovation. Use began in the 1940's in America.

Keep trying to justify your right wing ignorance, dogma and radical absolutism.
 
Bfgrn said:
So, the unwarranted DEATH of women is not significant because the 'numbers' not significant enough...interesting set of values. Penicillin is not a 1970's innovation. Use began in the 1940's in America.

Keep trying to justify your right wing ignorance, dogma and radical absolutism.
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dimwit, you claimed we should legalize abortion because women died getting illegal abortions.....in reality, more women die giving birth than die from illegal abortions, and that was true before and after penicillin....you tried to make a point lying about data and got caught....sorry if that makes you look like a fraud, but what can I say.....you're a fraud.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
dimwit, you claimed we should legalize abortion because women died getting illegal abortions.....in reality, more women die giving birth than die from illegal abortions, and that was true before and after penicillin....you tried to make a point lying about data and got caught....sorry if that makes you look like a fraud, but what can I say.....you're a fraud.....
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I did not present any data that didn't have a link, but YOU DID. Please provide it.

Here is what I provided, now show me where I lied?

Although accurate records could not be kept, it is known that between the 1880s and 1973, many thousands of women were harmed as a result of illegal abortion.

Many women died or suffered serious medical problems after attempting to self-induce their abortions or going to untrained practitioners who performed abortions with primitive methods or in unsanitary conditions. During this time, hospital emergency room staff treated thousands of women who either died or were suffering terrible effects of abortions provided without adequate skill and care.
 
AssHatZombie said:
All viable life began at conception.
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You can make dictatorial statements all day long, but you are still wrong.

Fetal Viability
The potential of the FETUS to survive outside the UTERUS after birth, natural or induced. Fetal viability depends largely on the FETAL ORGAN MATURITY, and environmental conditions.

The United States Supreme Court stated in Roe v. Wade (1973) that viability (i.e., the "interim point at which the fetus becomes ... potentially able to live outside the mother's womb, albeit with artificial aid") "is usually placed at about seven months (28 weeks) but may occur earlier, even at 24 weeks." wiki
 
Bfgrn said:
You can make dictatorial statements all day long, but you are still wrong.

Fetal Viability
The potential of the FETUS to survive outside the UTERUS after birth, natural or induced. Fetal viability depends largely on the FETAL ORGAN MATURITY, and environmental conditions.

The United States Supreme Court stated in Roe v. Wade (1973) that viability (i.e., the "interim point at which the fetus becomes ... potentially able to live outside the mother's womb, albeit with artificial aid") "is usually placed at about seven months (28 weeks) but may occur earlier, even at 24 weeks." wiki
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And yet viability inside the womb if not expelled through medical abortion IS A FACT-while growing inside the womb fetal life is actual and viable. The likelihood of viability outside the womb, if not killed while inside the womb, is also a fact.
 
Bfgrn said:
I did not present any data that didn't have a link, but YOU DID. Please provide it.

Here is what I provided, now show me where I lied?

Although accurate records could not be kept, it is known that between the 1880s and 1973, many thousands of women were harmed as a result of illegal abortion.

Many women died or suffered serious medical problems after attempting to self-induce their abortions or going to untrained practitioners who performed abortions with primitive methods or in unsanitary conditions. During this time, hospital emergency room staff treated thousands of women who either died or were suffering terrible effects of abortions provided without adequate skill and care.
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in stating that in between the 1880s and 1973 many thousands of women were harmed as a result of illegal abortion......the reality is, after penicillin was discovered it was a comparitively rare thing for women to die either from childbirth or illegal abortion.....just prior to Roe v Wade a woman was more likely to die giving birth than she was getting an illegal abortion.....

thus, it was a lie to use this strategy to further your argument......

2003CDC-abortion-deaths.gif
 
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PostmodernProphet said:
CDC statistics show fewer than than 300 women a year died from illegal abortions in the 70s, not a significant difference with the women who died giving birth.......high numbers existed before penicillin was discovered, but there were equally high numbers of deaths in live births before penicillin was discovered.....
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Still waiting for a link to your data................................................................
 
Bfgrn said:
Still waiting for a link to your data................................................................
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oh sorry.....I didn't realize you were seriously questioning it....

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Maternal Abortion Deaths
1940-1985

Estimated Number of Deaths Due To:
Total Number
Abortions Induced Illegal Spontaneous Induced Abortion
Year for Legal Reasons Abortions Abortions Maternal Deaths

1940 94 1,313 272 1,407
1941 78 1,080 224 1,158
1942 70 962 199 1,032
1943 65 910 189 975
1944 55 770 160 825
1945 50 694 144 744
1946 43 593 123 636
1947 33 457 95 490
1948 28 388 80 416
1949 26 298 70 324
1950 17 246 53 263
1951 31 226 46 257
1952 21 249 50 270
1953 14 230 50 244
1954 21 223 43 244
1955 13 211 42 224
1956 11 174 36 185
1957 10 209 41 219
1958 1 215 43 216
1959 5 235 44 240
1960 10 241 38 251
1961 4 271 49 275
1962 5 253 47 258
1963 5 234 41 239
1964 5 207 35 212
1965 4 197 34 201
1966 1 159 29 160
1967 4 135 21 139
1968 2 109 22 111
1969 1 115 16 116
1970 10 109 9 119
1971 15 75 9 90
1972 24 41 25 65
1973 25 22 10 47
1974 26 7 21 33
1975 29 5 14 34
1976 11 3 13 14
1977 17 4 16 21
1978 9 8 9 17
1979 18 0 9 18

1980 9 2 6 11
1981 7 1 3 8
1982 11 1 6 12
1983 10 1 7 11
1984 11 1 6 12
1985 6 2 6 8

Sources: Data for 1940-1971 are from the National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS); data for 1972-1985 (the last year for which data are available) are from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Through 1971, the "Illegal Abortion Deaths" column is the sum of deaths reported as due to "Abortions Induced for Other Reasons" and "Other and Unspecified Abortions" by NCHS. (NCHS reports abortion-related deaths as due to these two causes as well as to "Abortions Induced for Legal Reasons" or "Spontaneous Abortions.") From 1972 onward, the "Illegal Abortion Deaths" column aggregates those reported by CDC under that heading as well as those reported as "Other" and "Unknown".

[Life Without Roe, Horatio R. Storer Foundation, p.11]
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http://www.physiciansforlife.org/content/view/9/26/

According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC)[1], the
principal gatherer of United States abortion mortality statistics,
there have been 240 maternal deaths due to legal abortion in the
United States during the years 1972-1987 (See Table 1, below)
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http://www.ewtn.com/library/PROLIFE/COVERUP.TXT

three different sources enough for you or do you want more....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
oh sorry.....I didn't realize you were seriously questioning it....

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http://www.physiciansforlife.org/content/view/9/26/



http://www.ewtn.com/library/PROLIFE/COVERUP.TXT

three different sources enough for you or do you want more....
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Indignation because I asked you to back up your data, really? That is standard on any board, maybe you feel you should be exempt.

I'm skeptical of some of your information because the source is a religious group that promotes abstinence only. If the goal is to reduce the number of abortions, then abstinence only is not going to work. Realistic groups like Planned Parenthood who provide birth control devices and education will be 100 times more effective.

But let's take your argument to conclusion. You say more women die from childbirth than die from abortions. But you would make mandatory childbirth the law. So, more women will die because of childbirth, AND women will still die from abortions. But you have faith that self induced abortions and illegal abortion practitioners are just as qualified to perform a safe abortion?

Will the outcome improve for women? Will self induced abortions and illegal abortion practitioners lead to more humane fetus outcomes?
 
Bfgrn said:
I'm skeptical of some of your information
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should I give a fuck?.....you should be embarrassed for not already knowing it....no, I do not have faith that illegal abortion practitioners are qualified to perform a safe abortions.....quite frankly I think illegal abortion practitioners are only qualified to spend their lives in prison....ending abortion will obviously lead to more humane "fetus outcomes"......(some people aren't afraid to say "birth")......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
should I give a fuck?.....you should be embarrassed for not already knowing it....no, I do not have faith that illegal abortion practitioners are qualified to perform a safe abortions.....quite frankly I think illegal abortion practitioners are only qualified to spend their lives in prison....ending abortion will obviously lead to more humane "fetus outcomes"......(some people aren't afraid to say "birth")......
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Ending legal abortions will not stop abortions from taking place. It will create a class of criminal slime that will profit off illegal abortion, and create a nightmare for women, society and the outcome for fetuses will not change.

Criminalization of abortion did not reduce the numbers of women who sought abortions. In the years before Roe v. Wade, the estimates of illegal abortions ranged as high as 1.2 million per year.
 
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