Immigrants vs. Illegal Aliens

G 2 i n d said:
rstring, you agree probably 90% with what dixie is saying. this is one of your classic "type out paragraphs for the purpose of typing out paragraphs." You are arguing minutia.
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BS! He clearly grouped civil violators and criminals together. That's the point of saying that illegal immigration is a crime. It is clearly intended that it is a crime according to the law. But it is not. If you are saying that's not the context you want to use then okay. What context are you using?

And as I have stated numerous times it is highly relevant to the Arizona law. This is not minutia. It will be challenged point. It would be unprecedented to allow the state to arrest people based on probable cause that they MAY have committed a civil violation of the law.
 
No one here thinks we should jail someone for illegal presence. Yet based on probable cause of this horrible offense we are going to allow the cops to go around arresting people? If this law ever does take effect, which is doubtful, do you honestly believe the cops are not going to make an errant arrest? I am sure it won't be any white people, so who gives a crap, right?
 
RStringfield said:
Being illegally present is grounds for deportation. They did not make a mistake here. It means they can arrest people without a warrant on suspicion of committing a civil infraction. Do you think they should be able to do that to a guy they think may have crossed the street illegally? Why not he's a fucking criminal... Right?
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your strawmen have downs syndrome. Seriously, that shit is fucking retarded. Are you a 5th grader?
 
RStringfield said:
No one here thinks we should jail someone for illegal presence. Yet based on probable cause of this horrible offense we are going to allow the cops to go around arresting people? If this law ever does take effect, which is doubtful, do you honestly believe the cops are not going to make an errant arrest? I am sure it won't be any white people, so who gives a crap, right?
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We want them deported, not jailed. Arizona isn't jailing them, only holding them until the feds do their fucking job

You are an idiot
 
RStringfield said:
BS! He clearly grouped civil violators and criminals together. That's the point of saying that illegal immigration is a crime. It is clearly intended that it is a crime according to the law. But it is not. If you are saying that's not the context you want to use then okay. What context are you using?

And as I have stated numerous times it is highly relevant to the Arizona law. This is not minutia. It will be challenged point. It would be unprecedented to allow the state to arrest people based on probable cause that they MAY have committed a civil violation of the law.
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You're just being pedantic
 
G 2 i n d said:
also children of illegal aliens born in america should not be granted citizenship. that's another big mistake we have going currently
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All of the countries in the European Union have banned anchor babies from being a pathway to citizenship...we definitely need to revisit the 14th amendment.
 
I have noted numerous times that illegal entry is a crime. By definition it is crime. No argument there, just like there is no argument that illegal presence is not a crime.
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Ex posto facto. If you are illegally present, you must have entered illegally or done something to become illegal. Those who are illegally present are a potential security risk, and for that reason alone, should be taken very seriously. You want to bog down on a superfluous detail... no one is talking about someone who's visa has expired, or some moron tourist who accidentally strayed across the border into the US... we are talking about Mexicans who are coming across our southern borders at an alarming rate, draining the border cities dry because these people contribute nothing to the system. This is a huge problem, and it has to be dealt with sooner rather than later, and to hem-haw around with your idiot ass, talking about the 'technicalities' of people who are 'illegally present' is just plain stupid.
 
Ice Dancer said:
All of the countries in the European Union have banned anchor babies from being a pathway to citizenship...we definitely need to revisit the 14th amendment.
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Really ID?

France was the orignator of birthright citizenship, compared to the blood citizenship of Nazi Germany, specifically designed to allow an underclass to emerge and be exploited. This is the kind of citizenship you are now advocating, just to be clear. You are advocating that Nazi policy be put in place in the US. This makes it very clear where the allegiance of the right lies.
 
Mr. Spite said:
Really ID?

France was the orignator of birthright citizenship, compared to the blood citizenship of Nazi Germany, specifically designed to allow an underclass to emerge and be exploited. This is the kind of citizenship you are now advocating, just to be clear. You are advocating that Nazi policy be put in place in the US. This makes it very clear where the allegiance of the right lies.
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in this case the parents should be blamed for sneaking in to have children born into nebulous status.
 
tinfoil said:
We want them deported, not jailed. Arizona isn't jailing them, only holding them until the feds do their fucking job

You are an idiot
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I know and that makes my point. You do not mind that a few brown skinned citizens and legal immigrants will be incorrectly arrested for what is the equivalent of suspicion of jaywalking. Even you wish to only treat it as a civil offense, but you don't care that the government will be able to arrest people without warrant for this horrendous civil offense.

It's apparent you don't really understand what is wrong with that, but you should. You ignore thousands of years in the development of our laws, and the balance between security and individual rights. The balance between arresting CRIMINALS (not jay walkers) and protecting the individual from false arrest. According to you, the cops should be able to do whatever they want no matter how small the offense.

Who cares if you are held against your will, you committed a crime... err.... well a civil offense....uhhh.... well, we think you did based on lack of papers and skin color. Besides, you can sue the cops... if you can prove they acted in bad faith (meaning you will not likely have a case). It does not matter to you because you are white and don't really give a shit about the rights of anyone else. That's what it comes down to. But it is sad to see you idiots so ignorant of the law, the letter or the spirit under which it has been formed.

Suspicion of a civil offense should not get someone arrested without a warrant. Not in America. You do not care about our heritage of liberty and protection from unreasonable state action. I do.
 
RStringfield said:
I know and that makes my point. You do not mind that a few brown skinned citizens and legal immigrants will be incorrectly arrested for what is the equivalent of suspicion of jaywalking. Even you wish to only treat it as a civil offense, but you don't care that the government will be able to arrest people without warrant for this horrendous civil offense.

It's apparent you don't really understand what is wrong with that, but you should. You ignore thousands of years in the development of our laws, and the balance between security and individual rights. The balance between arresting CRIMINALS (not jay walkers) and protecting the individual from false arrest. According to you, the cops should be able to do whatever they want no matter how small the offense.

Who cares if you are held against your will, you committed a crime... err.... well a civil offense....uhhh.... well, we think you did based on lack of papers and skin color. Besides, you can sue the cops... if you can prove they acted in bad faith (meaning you will not likely have a case). It does not matter to you because you are white and don't really give a shit about the rights of anyone else. That's what it comes down to. But it is sad to see you idiots so ignorant of the law, the letter or the spirit under which it has been formed.

Suspicion of a civil offense should not get someone arrested without a warrant. Not in America. You do not care about our heritage of liberty and protection from unreasonable state action. I do.
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just can the faux outrage. You're an open borders zealot pretending to care about the law and americans.

Allowing illegal immigration is the abrogation of the very defining duties that make a nation a nation, protecting the local populace from invasion.
 
stringfield keep comparing illegal immigration to jaywalking. That's a winning strategy as it shows the value you place on american security and economic wellbeing.
 
AssHatZombie said:
stringfield keep comparing illegal immigration to jaywalking. That's a winning strategy as it shows the value you place on american security and economic wellbeing.
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It proves I understand the law. Please tell us what great threat to our security and economic well being is created when a legal immigrant falls out of compliance and becomes an illegal immigrant? If the threat is so great, why is this only a civil offense? Why would it not be a crime?

Illegal entry is a threat, as it shows a willful intent to violate our laws. Robbery is a threat. Speeding is not a serious threat. Illegal presence is not a serious threat. That's why some are crimes and the others are a civil violation of the law.

You guys continue to evade the truth.
 
RStringfield said:
It proves I understand the law. Please tell us what great threat to our security and economic well being is created when a legal immigrant falls out of compliance and becomes an illegal immigrant? If the threat is so great, why is this only a civil offense? Why would it not be a crime?

Illegal entry is a threat, as it shows a willful intent to violate our laws. Robbery is a threat. Speeding is not a serious threat. Illegal presence is not a serious threat. That's why some are crimes and the others are a civil violation of the law.

You guys continue to evade the truth.
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Civil offenses are crimes too.

But the crime is mostly committed by our government in failing to protect opportunities for american citizens.
 
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