Immigrants aren't stealing jobs, robots are
- Thread starter Legion Troll
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Legion Troll
A fine upstanding poster
Libertarians in action:
This is their most recent national convention.
This is their most recent national convention.
Legionthecat
Double Platinum Catroll
It is true that automation of services will improve the profit margin of powerful corporations and automated services may improve wait lines in fast food restaurants, but the savage nature of the last part of the line, with it's lack of concern for the humanity involved makes it decidedly libertarian.
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Legionthecat
Double Platinum Catroll
And they chose Governor Weld over that guy?
What were they thinking?
He could easily garner more headlines with that act than Trumpf ever could.
Legion Troll
A fine upstanding poster
cawacko
Well-known member
Technological advances increase the standard of living for this country. As the adage says look at what the very rich have today and that's what we'll all have in the future. Look at computers and cell phones as an example.
It seems you acknowledge that technology will continue to grow and expand yet be upset at libertarians for it.
Oh, I see, you were just lying. Nothing I said restricted the word "our" to libertarians. It's not commonly used in a way that restricts it based on politics but is rather used to include all members of a geographic region. But you knew that.
Legion Troll
A fine upstanding poster
How will displaced workers earn a living? As robot salespeople? As robot maintenance engineers?
How will Libertarians mitigate the ill effects of automation?
Any solutions?
Or will they say "not our problem"?
Why do you insist on discrediting yourself so soon?
You are clearly the savage, Luddite.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
It could actually cause a political revolution....oh wait...I forgot that we'll be dead and this will impact the millennial generation who are too entitled and lazy to get off their ass, quite playing pokeymon and do something about it.
Looks like humanity is fucked, ehh?
Legion Troll
A fine upstanding poster
Libertarians have a saying.
Job insecurity is a central theme of the 2016 campaign, fueling popular anger about trade deals and immigration. But economists warn that much bigger job losses are ahead in the United States — driven not by foreign competition but by advancing technology.
A look at the numbers suggests that the country is having the wrong economic debate this year. Employment security won’t come from renegotiating trade deals, as Donald Trump said. These are palliatives.
The deeper problem facing the United States is how to provide meaningful work and good wages for the tens of millions of truck drivers, accountants, factory workers and office clerks whose jobs will disappear in coming years because of robots, driverless vehicles and “machine learning” systems.
The political debate needs to engage the taboo topic of guaranteeing economic security to families — through a universal basic income, or a greatly expanded earned-income tax credit, or a 1930s-style plan for public-works employment. Ranting about bad trade deals won’t begin to address the problem.
The “automation bomb” could destroy 45 percent of the work activities currently performed in the United States, representing about $2 trillion in annual wages, according to a study last year by the consulting firm McKinsey & Co. We’ve seen only the beginning of this change, they warned.
Currently, only 5 percent of occupations can be entirely automated, but 60 percent of occupations could soon see machines doing 30 percent or more of the work.
The McKinsey analysts sharpened their argument in a paper released last month. Their estimates, based on U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics data covering more than 800 occupations, draw a shocking picture of the future.
- In manufacturing, 59 percent of activities could be automated, and that includes “90 percent of what welders, cutters, solderers and brazers do.”
- In food service and accommodations, 73 percent of the work could be performed by machines.
- In retailing, 53 percent of current jobs could be lost.
White-collar workers may imagine that they’re safe, but that’s wishful thinking. 66 percent of jobs in finance and insurance could be replaced, the most recent report says.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-brave-new-world-of-robots-and-lost-jobs/2016/08/11/e66a4914-5fff-11e6-af8e-54aa2e849447_story.html?utm_term=.1455bd94c78b&wpisrc=nl_draw2&wpmm=1
Illegals aren't stealing jobs they are undercutting the American worker and driving down wages, they can afford to do that because they are only coming here for five years so they can buy a house back in Mexico and are willing to work 6 days a week at 8.50 an hour for 12 hours a day with no overtime or benefits living 5 people to a 2 bedroom apartment because they know in five years due to the cheap property in Mexico and the exchange rate and Purchasing Power Parity that with that amount of US dollars they can retire in five years. It's a great deal for them, it's a great deal for US owners, but the American worker can't compete due to the differences in cost of living between the US and Mexico. That is what none of the candidates understands, these people are not coming here to stay they are coming here so they can retire back in Mexico in five years. If these people want amnesty and US citizenship then their Mexican citizenship needs to be revoked so that they are forced to compete on equal footing with American labor because as it stands the deck is stacked against the American worker.
Legion Troll
A fine upstanding poster
Idiot. American corporations offshore jobs and automate factories to boost their bottom line. If using robots is cheaper than offshoring jobs to third world hellholes or hiring illegal immigrant labor in the US, that's that they do.
Idiot the majority of jobs in the US are in the service sector not manufacturing and illegal immigration is driving down wages in that sector due to the aforementioned reasons listed, automation killing job growth is a long disproven economic fallacy because when automation replaces manual labor those jobs are replaced in the service sector the very same sector where the American worker is being killed by illegal immigrants with whom they can not compete.
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Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Life will change. Manufacturing required a quantum leap in public education over that needed for an agricultural society, as well as, dramatic changes in education from a classics based educational system to a liberal arts one that taught critical thinking skills.
Advances in technology have already cause more economic dislocation than trade agreements have. Don't believe me? Go visit a modern integrated steel mill or a modern automotive assembly plant and then research on the resources needed back then to produce what is produced now. Technology has allowed production on a far lower footprint with far lower resources.
Yet the bottom hasn't dropped out of the economy? Why is that? Because people aren't stupid. In a growing knowledge based economy the skill of the past don't always survive or remain relevant. People need educations in which skill sets can be updated and/or revised so as to remain relevant and competitive in the modern work place.
Change is the only real constant and now change at the human level is occurring at a far faster rate than it ever has in our history. There will always be those who fight and resist change and they almost always end up losing. The real focus needs to be on updating technical and information skills education in our public schools in addition to basic literacy, numeracy and enlightenment.
Just as those who came from agricultural societies that lacked in literacy and numeracy fell by the wayside of human progress during the industrial revolution, those who don't develop STEM skills in the age of information and technology will also fall victim to the unrelenting forces of progress.
In other words education is the key.
cawacko
Well-known member
We have this ever changing econony yet an education system stuck in the 20th century. Fortunately there are entrepreneurs working out there to disrupt and improve our education system
Automation doesn't kill job growth that is a long proven economic fact because it stimulates job growth in the service sector where jobs lost in the manufacturing industry are replaced, unfortunately due to illegal immigration American workers can not compete in that sector of employment.
Legionthecat
Double Platinum Catroll
The automation of food services is not demanded by the public and will not likely improve the service to the public. It is instead the libertarian's and corporatists', slap in the face, answer to the prospect of increasing the minimum wage for food workers.
A kiosk at McDonald's that takes your order and a robotic arm flipping your burger will not improve your life the way a smart phone does.
As I noted in a previous post, wealthy people will not be ordering their $300 dinner through a kiosk at Claudette's. They will have real live human waiters and waitresses.
Automation does not kill job growth you fucking luddite, it stimulates job growth in the service sector where jobs lost in manufacturing are replaced.
The Luddite fallacy is the simple observation that new technology does not lead to higher overall unemployment in the economy. New technology doesn’t destroy jobs – it only changes the composition of jobs in the economy.
Why do Economists say that new technology does not cause unemployment?
Firstly, rapid technological change may cause some short-term temporary unemployment. However, economic theory suggests that jobs lost as a result of technological change will be created in different, new industries.
When automated looms were built, it became cheaper to manufacturer clothes. Therefore, consumers buying clothes would have experienced lower prices, and therefore, after buying the same amount of clothes, they would have more disposable income to buy other goods. For example, they may now be able to afford a train ticket to go and buy a silk scarf in town.
With technological change, we see increased demand for new products; therefore new jobs are created on the railways and shops selling more luxury items, such as scarves and hats.
Also, there will be some jobs created in the building of the automated looms.
With new technology, firms selling clothes will also be more profitable. This profit may be used to fund future investment and job creation.
Over time, improved technology would mean that even automated looms become outdated. New technology may enable clothes to be mass produced with even fewer workers. Again, this would cause a relative fall in the price of clothes, and consumers would have more disposable income to buy goods, but also spend on labour intensive services.
This is what has happened over the past 100 – 200 years – new Technology has enabled the economy to move towards a more service sector based economy. Lower costs of manufactured goods, enables us to be able to afford a wider range of goods and services.
http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/6717/economics/the-luddite-fallacy/
cawacko
Well-known member
It improves lives in the sense it keeps prices down allowing greater access. If fast food shops automate service and people rebel then the restaurants will have to make changes. That's the market at work