If the universe is infinitely old, how did Today ever get here?

[Cypress]

Universe May Have Had No Beginning​

If a new theory turns out to be true, the universe may not have started with a bang.

In the new formulation, the universe was never a singularity, or an infinitely small and infinitely dense point of matter. In fact, the universe may have no beginning at all.

"Our theory suggests that the age of the universe could be infinite," said study co-author Saurya Das, a theoretical physicist at the University of Lethbridge in Alberta, Canada.

Steady State Theory's View on the Universe's Origins and Age​

The Steady State Theory posits that the universe is eternal, with no beginning or end. This theory rejects the idea of a singular cosmic origination event, such as the Big Bang, and instead suggests that the universe is constantly evolving through the continuous creation of matter. The universe's age is not a fixed value, as it is considered to be infinitely old.


https://www.livescience.com/49958-theory-no-big-bang.html

 

[gmark77]

This is how Aquinas' First Uncaused Cause fails.

Ultimately there is no "superior" hypothesis for the origin of the universe. Either one believes in an eternal "God" or one believes in an eternal "Universe" which does not require a God to create it.

I think one can truly be "agnostic" about the origin of the universe. Since it may very well be possible that it is impossible to know the answer.

I see agnosticism about God to be far more "tentative". Since presumably if God is real then God's existence CAN be known one way or the other.

It's like being "agnostic" about the existence of a 20' tall man. Once one has sufficient evidence (or lackthereof) it is perfectly rational to not believe in the existence of such a man. It would be a matter of actively avoiding even thinking about the question to remain "agnostic" about it.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

If the universe is infinitely old (or young), then there are only three 'days' to it:

Today
Tomorrow
Yesterday

 

[LurchAddams]

Universe May Have Had No Beginning​

If a new theory turns out to be true, the universe may not have started with a bang.

In the new formulation, the universe was never a singularity, or an infinitely small and infinitely dense point of matter. In fact, the universe may have no beginning at all.

"Our theory suggests that the age of the universe could be infinite," said study co-author Saurya Das, a theoretical physicist at the University of Lethbridge in Alberta, Canada.

Steady State Theory's View on the Universe's Origins and Age​

The Steady State Theory posits that the universe is eternal, with no beginning or end. This theory rejects the idea of a singular cosmic origination event, such as the Big Bang, and instead suggests that the universe is constantly evolving through the continuous creation of matter. The universe's age is not a fixed value, as it is considered to be infinitely old.


https://www.livescience.com/49958-theory-no-big-bang.html

It's another theory, like the Big Bang - and we will likely never know for sure. The reason the Big Bang makes more sense to me is the speed the universe is expanding. Guess how fast our galaxy, The Milky Way, is traveling right now away from the theorized, "Big Bang center".

 

[Cypress]

It's another theory, like the Big Bang - and we will likely never know for sure. The reason the Big Bang makes more sense to me is the speed the universe is expanding. Guess how fast our galaxy, The Milky Way, is traveling right now away from the theorized, "Big Bang center".

Big Bang is generally supported by strong evidence.
Before the Big Bang became widely accepted Einstein, Fred Hoyle, and other physicists generally wanted to believe the universe was eternal and they did not want to believe it had an origin.

I can't wrap my mind around the premise that if the universe is infinitely old how today ever got here.

 

[Cypress]

If the universe is infinitely old (or young), then there are only three 'days' to it:

Today
Tomorrow
Yesterday

It seems to me if the universe was infinetly old, there would always be at least one more day before today ever got here.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

It seems to me if the universe was infinetly old, there would always be at least one more day before today ever got here.

Another way of putting it is, there are only three 'days' to it:

Past
Present
Future

 

[Cypress]

Another way of putting it is, there are only three 'days' to it:

Past
Present
Future

How did the present get here if the past is infinitely old?

 

[NiftyNiblick]

The origin of the universe erupting from a single point begs the question,
What was outside of that single point?

My casual suspicion (given in the context of minimal curiosity) ?
The rest of the single infinite universe is what.

What was the origin of that single point in the universe?
God?

What was the origin of a God that allegedly created this hideously flawed, rife with suffering universe,
from or not from a single point?

Do I benefit in any way from pondering it?
Doing so right now isn't soothing me in any way.

What would change my remaining days in a positive manner
is knowing what PowerBall number is coming up,
not the origin of a deity and its flawed universe.

My physical person responds positively to material benefits.
Not knowing the essence of others, I won't speak for them.

As for how Today got here,
it had no choice.

With or without any reference for unit of measurement,
time is simply an infinite progression.
There was something before everything.
There's something after everything.
We're not infinite and thus cannot experience anything that would offer explanation.
My view only, of course.
(Also thankful for not being infinite.)

 

[T. A. Gardner]

How did the present get here if the past is infinitely old?

But here, let me confuse you further.

You are where the ball is (the present). The future is ahead of the ball in the direction of motion while the past is behind the ball in the direction of motion. Thus, you have an infinite universe with a past, present, and future.

 

[Cypress]

But here, let me confuse you further.

You are where the ball is (the present). The future is ahead of the ball in the direction of motion while the past is behind the ball in the direction of motion. Thus, you have an infinite universe with a past, present, and future.

A Mobius strip implies time is cyclical and has a periodicity.

Unlike the other mathematical laws of physics, entropy is unidirectional at the scale of the cosmos, and consequently there is an arrow of time - it goes in one direction, and is not cyclical.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

A Mobius strip implies time is cyclical and has a periodicity.

Entropy can be applied to a cyclic process so long as the result is zero at the end of the cycle. In a universe billions of years old, that could be occurring and we just haven't noticed.

2.6: The Entropy

phys.libretexts.org

Unlike the other mathematical laws of physics, entropy is unidirectional at the scale of the cosmos, and consequently there is an arrow of time - it goes in one direction, and is not cyclical.

Entropy, as I've demonstrated, can by cyclic so long as overall it equals zero at the end of each cycle.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

A Mobius strip implies time is cyclical and has a periodicity.

Unlike the other mathematical laws of physics, entropy is unidirectional at the scale of the cosmos, and consequently there is an arrow of time - it goes in one direction, and is not cyclical.

Even a Mobius strip has ONE boundary,
and something has to exist outside of every boundary.

Maybe, something existing outside of the boundary
serves as the time reference rather than whatever cyclical manifestation exists inside.

Also, if entropy implies random and disordered,
how does something as orderly as a straight arrow of time emerge from an entropic manifestation?

I'm sure that these questions are nonsense to a mathematically oriented mind,
but despite being all about numbers,
accounting as I knew it didn't require much challenging math.

The numbers were easy to make functional.
My personal account balances meant that I shouldn't try to buy a new Bentley
if I wanted to send my kids to college.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

It seems to me if the universe was infinetly old, there would always be at least one more day before today ever got here.

If the set of all real numbers is infinite, how do you wrap your head around the number five being the number of fingers you have on one hand?

 

[Cypress]

If the set of all real numbers is infinite, how do you wrap your head around the number five being the number of fingers you have on one hand?

Five is only five integers from the origin point of natural numbers, if we take zero as an origin. That's finite.

An infinitely old universe from our perspective does not have a finite amount of measurement units back to an origin. There is no origin. There should be an infinite amount of time units between us and the past.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

Five is only five integers from the origin point of natural numbers, if we take zero as an origin. That's finite.

An infinitely old universe from our perspective does not have a finite amount of measurement units back to an origin. There is no origin. There should be an infinite amount of time units between us and the past.

Real numbers include both positive and negative numbers and negative numbers are as infinite as positive ones.

 

[gmark77]

Entropy, as I've demonstrated, can by cyclic so long as overall it equals zero at the end of each cycle.

Given that usually entropy is considered the "hallmark" of time (ie non-symmetrical, one direction), I'm curious how entropy goes "cyclical".

I understand the concept that entropy can be a negative term in those cases where energy is added TO a system, but if we are talking about the universe here and the law that in a closed system (eg the universe) entropy always increases I'm curious about your "demonstration".

 

[gmark77]

Even a Mobius strip has ONE boundary,
and something has to exist outside of every boundary.

I think this is the exact same reasoning that led Aquinas wrong in the "first uncaused cause" argument. It starts off with the predicate that all things that exist must have a beginning based on the idea that everything he was familiar with had a beginning.

The universe is, likely, a "special case".

Ultimately the failure of the Cosmological Argument rests in the fact that it requires a "special case", in that case arbitrarily "God" was set as the ONE THING which didn't have a beginning.

So to point to the Mobius Strip and say that it has an edge which means that everything must have a "boundary" is to slip into the same error mode.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Given that usually entropy is considered the "hallmark" of time (ie non-symmetrical, one direction), I'm curious how entropy goes "cyclical".

I understand the concept that entropy can be a negative term in those cases where energy is added TO a system, but if we are talking about the universe here and the law that in a closed system (eg the universe) entropy always increases I'm curious about your "demonstration".

Like a Carnot heat engine

Look, if you haven't taken physics and thermodynamics it would take me quite a while to explain this to you.

 

[gmark77]

If the set of all real numbers is infinite, how do you wrap your head around the number five being the number of fingers you have on one hand?

Why would the existence of infinity keep one from counting WITHIN that?