If the Republican Party were a normal party...

Crashk said:
Holding the country hostage so Paris Hilton and the Kochs get a tax break is not only immoral but histroy has proven these tax breaks don't create jobs. Trying to balance the budget on the unemployed, children, the elderly and the poor is the same as barbarians at the gate.
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LOL Typical liberal talking points. What's wrong with everyone paying the same tax rate? No loopholes whatsoever?
 
Bfgrn said:
Damo, I don't question your intentions, but I do question your wisdom. It took us 30 years to accumulate our debt, it will take at least 30 years to reverse that. Sudden will be DEADLY, for our economy, recovery and most importantly our PEOPLE, especially the most vulnerable. The Republican proposal is not based on fiscal conservatism, it is social engineered.

The arguments from you and every other conservative requires liberals and Democrats to fit YOUR definitions. We need BOTH parties to work toward SANE debt reduction that doesn't cause massive harm. We still have to INVEST in the future.

Letter to the full House Opposing the Cap, Cut, and Balance Act

July 18, 2011
Dear Representative:


On behalf of the 3.2 million members of the National Education Association, we strongly urge you to VOTE NO on the Cut, Cap, and Balance Act (H.R. 2560), scheduled for floor consideration in the House this week. While we understand the need to get our nation's fiscal house in order, this bill is not the right mechanism to achieve that goal. The effect of this proposal would be devastating for public education and retirement security, undermining economic recovery and jeopardizing our future strength as a nation. Votes associated with this issue may be included in the NEA Legislative Report Card for the 112th Congress.

The Cut, Cap, and Balance Act would write spending caps into law at the levels contained in the House-passed Ryan budget. It also would hold hostage the debt limit increase unless two-thirds of the House and the Senate agree to a constitutional balanced budget amendment. The required constitutional amendment would make all revenue-raising measures unconstitutional unless they secure a two-thirds supermajority in both chambers. In addition, the required amendment would cap total federal expenditures at 18 percent of GDP.

Overall, this plan, like other proposed spending caps and balanced budget amendments, would result in the largest cuts in federal spending in modern history. It will not be possible to achieve the spending levels required under any balanced budget amendment or spending cap proposal without massive cuts in education, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and other programs that meet crucial national needs. In fact, the bill would require an immediate, deep $47 billion aggregate cut to non-security discretionary spending, including an 11.7 percent cut to Labor-HHS-Education discretionary programs.

Educators understand that Congress must work to ensure America’s long-term economic prosperity and that we must address the nation’s serious fiscal challenges. However, cutting education funding and slashing programs that serve children, the elderly, and working families is not the answer. And, while we understand the need to address the nation’s deficit, we also know that some debt is necessary to meet critical needs. Most families have mortgages and car loans, and take on other debt to provide for their children’s futures. In addition, while many states must balance their operating budgets, they take on debt for capital costs and job-creating projects such as building roads, bridges, and schools.

NEA members see first-hand every day the struggles of many of their students and their families. The Cap, Cut, and Balance Act will make their struggles even harder - essentially abandoning them while continuing to cater to Wall Street and the wealthiest in our nation. In fact, unlike every law of the past quarter-century that has contained a fiscal target or standard enforced by across-the-board cuts, this proposal does not exempt the core basic assistance programs for the poorest Americans from such across-the-board cuts. It does so even as it seeks to erect a constitutional firewall to safeguard tax cuts and tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans. Thus, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, an impoverished elderly widow living on Supplemental Security Income — which provides benefits that lift people to just 75 percent of the poverty line — could have her assistance cut back under the measure’s across-the-board budget cuts even as millionaire hedge-fund managers retained their lucrative carried-interest tax breaks.

However well-intentioned the notion of capping discretionary spending may be, this type of fiscal proposal is akin to the Taxpayer Bill of Rights (TABOR) ballot measures which have been repeatedly defeated in states across this country. And, where enacted, TABOR has held policymakers hostage to simplistic formulas perpetrated by their predecessors. In Colorado, TABOR resulted in a drop in per pupil K-12 education funding from $200 less than the national average in 1992 to $1000 less than the national average in 2006.

This bill would constitute exceedingly unwise economic policy. It would risk tipping a faltering economy into recession and slowing economic recovery. It would determine spending levels for decades and tie future Congress’ hands. And, it would render impossible the sorts of investments necessary to continue economic recovery and grow the skilled workforce necessary for future economic strength.

The Cap, Cut, and Balance Act would decimate public education and other programs that ensure a competitive workforce and future economic vitality. We urge you to oppose this and any similar proposals.

Sincerely,

Kim Anderson
Director of Government Relations

Mary Kusler
Manager of Federal Advocacy
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"Suddenly"?

Jeebus you don't know me at all. This has been crippling us for decades and you think it "suddenly" has become immoral to foist off our largesse to future generations so we can pretend it's fiscally responsible to pay interest on debt with more debt?

Yeah, I know you haven't been around for long, but it has been no secret that this spending was stupid even back in Clinton's time where we pretended that "budgeting" a surplus actually created one when we STILL borrowed to pay the interest on our debts in the years of "surplus"...

Absolutely we've been irresponsible for decades, it is time to pay up and the only way to ensure that will happen is by limiting the government to sanity through the governing documents. Pretending that fiscal responsibility is a "partisan" standpoint then posting that both parties got us into the mess, then STILL telling me that limiting government power to cripple our economies is not something we should do?

You are uttering insane nonsense couched in flowery prose. It's time to stop and smell the reality. I know Obama has told you it was flowers, but calling poop flowers doesn't make it smell any different.
 
Damocles said:
"Suddenly"?

Jeebus you don't know me at all. This has been crippling us for decades and you think it "suddenly" has become immoral to foist off our largesse to future generations so we can pretend it's fiscally responsible to pay interest on debt with more debt?

Yeah, I know you haven't been around for long, but it has been no secret that this spending was stupid even back in Clinton's time where we pretended that "budgeting" a surplus actually created one when we STILL borrowed to pay the interest on our debts in the years of "surplus"...

Absolutely we've been irresponsible for decades, it is time to pay up and the only way to ensure that will happen is by limiting the government to sanity through the governing documents. Pretending that fiscal responsibility is a "partisan" standpoint then posting that both parties got us into the mess, then STILL telling me that limiting government power to cripple our economies is not something we should do?

You are uttering insane nonsense couched in flowery prose. It's time to stop and smell the reality. I know Obama has told you it was flowers, but calling poop flowers doesn't make it smell any different.
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Yes...SUDDEN...What the Republicans have proposed will cause DRASTIC cuts in education, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and other programs that meet crucial national needs. What do YOU believe will happen to the most vulnerable fellow citizens?

Oh, I KNOW...they will just EVAPORATE!!!

Our debt is not the most important issue we currently face. Republicans have done a great job of MAKING IT be.

You talk about not raising taxes during a recession, but cutting the safety net is OK? Is there A PENNY of human capital in your thinking Damo?
 
Bfgrn said:
Yes...SUDDEN...What the Republicans have proposed will cause DRASTIC cuts in education, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and other programs that meet crucial national needs. What do YOU believe will happen to the most vulnerable fellow citizens?

Oh, I KNOW...they will just EVAPORATE!!!

Our debt is not the most important issue we currently face. Republicans have done a great job of MAKING IT be.

You talk about not raising taxes during a recession, but cutting the safety net is OK? Is there A PENNY of human capital in your thinking Damo?
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Yes, all of it. The reality is, that when the inevitable happens after we continue to increase debt to use one credit card to pay the other, bankruptcy comes. What happens when your policy literally makes that inevitable? Is there a modicum of human capital in your thought? What you propose will absolutely cause what you predict.


We absolutely must put this nation on a sound fiscal footing or all your predictions will come true and there will be no way to do what is necessary when they come to pass.
 
Damocles said:
Yes, all of it. The reality is, that when the inevitable happens after we continue to increase debt to use one credit card to pay the other, bankruptcy comes. What happens when your policy literally makes that inevitable? Is there a modicum of human capital in your thought? What you propose will absolutely cause what you predict.


We absolutely must put this nation on a sound fiscal footing or all your predictions will come true and there will be no way to do what is necessary when they come to pass.
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'Yes all of it' ...yes all of WHAT Damo?
 
Bfgrn said:
Yes...SUDDEN...What the Republicans have proposed will cause DRASTIC cuts in education, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and other programs that meet crucial national needs. What do YOU believe will happen to the most vulnerable fellow citizens?

Oh, I KNOW...they will just EVAPORATE!!!

Our debt is not the most important issue we currently face. Republicans have done a great job of MAKING IT be.

You talk about not raising taxes during a recession, but cutting the safety net is OK? Is there A PENNY of human capital in your thinking Damo?
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So you think going back to 2006 budget levels (adjusted for inflation and population) is too drastic?

That is the problem with the left. When presented with a problem, they just pretend 'spending more' is the solution.

What we need to do is address the reasons COSTS have been rising and FIX that where we can. Tell me, what is the reason college educational expenses have risen so drastically over the past 20 years? What is the cause of health care increases at 2-3 times the rate of overall inflation?

How much of the current budget is simply WASTE?

You simply enjoy parroting the left wingnut talking points because FEAR MONGERING is what the left does so very well.
 
Superfreak said:
So you think going back to 2006 budget levels (adjusted for inflation and population) is too drastic?

That is the problem with the left. When presented with a problem, they just pretend 'spending more' is the solution.

What we need to do is address the reasons COSTS have been rising and FIX that where we can. Tell me, what is the reason college educational expenses have risen so drastically over the past 20 years? What is the cause of health care increases at 2-3 times the rate of overall inflation?

How much of the current budget is simply WASTE?

You simply enjoy parroting the left wingnut talking points because FEAR MONGERING is what the left does so very well.
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We should go back to 1997 spending levels, remember when we had a "surplus"?
 
Damocles said:
We should go back to 1997 spending levels, remember when we had a "surplus"?
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That is a good goal, but we can't get there suddenly. Not without economic, recovery and human carnage. We need a proper trajectory, but as counter intuitive as it sounds, right NOW we need to spend money. We need to create an economy with good jobs that can't be outsourced. The Chinese government is kicking our asses investing in green technology. THEY see it as the new 'space race'. And we have decided to be a spectator and ultimately a consumer...AGAIN.
 
Bfgrn said:
That is a good goal, but we can't get there suddenly. Not without economic, recovery and human carnage. We need a proper trajectory, but as counter intuitive as it sounds, right NOW we need to spend money. We need to create an economy with good jobs that can't be outsourced. The Chinese government is kicking our asses investing in green technology. THEY see it as the new 'space race'. And we have decided to be a spectator and ultimately a consumer...AGAIN.
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Right, nobody yet has suggested we do this immediately. You're just pretending now.
 
Damocles said:
Right, nobody yet has suggested we do this immediately. You're just pretending now.
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There are ways to reduce spending that are responsible. The Tea party driven radical GOP is going for the kill on social programs. THAT is not responsible or acceptable.
 
Bfgrn said:
There are ways to reduce spending that are responsible. The Tea party driven radical GOP is going for the kill on social programs. THAT is not responsible or acceptable.
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while I don't doubt that there are some TEA jacktivists who would love to see all social programs obliterated immediately, the saner of us REAL TEA activists do not. In fact, most of us would prefer that the feds cut their non-discretionary budgets instead, like most alphabet agencies and about 10% of the DoD budget
 
SmarterThanYou said:
while I don't doubt that there are some TEA jacktivists who would love to see all social programs obliterated immediately, the saner of us REAL TEA activists do not. In fact, most of us would prefer that the feds cut their non-discretionary budgets instead, like most alphabet agencies and about 10% of the DoD budget
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I don't want them all cut immediately, just gradually, like over a 4 to 6 year period. That would give the States time to pick them up if they so choose.
 
Damn Yankee said:
I don't want them all cut immediately, just gradually, like over a 4 to 6 year period. That would give the States time to pick them up if they so choose.
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i think what a better solution would be, as far as SS goes, is remove it from the general budget and put it back in it's own purse. Then see what the feds do about a budget.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
i think what a better solution would be, as far as SS goes, is remove it from the general budget and put it back in it's own purse. Then see what the feds do about a budget.
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I'd let people opt out immediately, raise the retirement age by 3 months per year until its dead even with the at-birth life expectancy, and let the States gradually take it over.
 
The GOP is insane to reject modest tax increases in exchange for significant cuts. Hell, I bet they could get $5 trillion in cuts if they put the Bush tax cuts on the chopping block. I'm firmly middle class and I'd be happy to pay slightly higher taxes to secure the future of my country.
 
Archimedes said:
The GOP is insane to reject modest tax increases in exchange for significant cuts. Hell, I bet they could get $5 trillion in cuts if they put the Bush tax cuts on the chopping block. I'm firmly middle class and I'd be happy to pay slightly higher taxes to secure the future of my country.
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We'd be better off letting the ceiling crush spending than raise any taxes.
 
Bfgrn said:
There are ways to reduce spending that are responsible. The Tea party driven radical GOP is going for the kill on social programs. THAT is not responsible or acceptable.
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Again, now you are just making crap up. There has been exactly zero plans put forward that would do this, none at all. You have to believe in unicorns and goblins in order to believe this kind of nonsense.

The reality is we cannot, absolutely cannot, afford to continue on the path we've been traveling. It absolutely will lead to fiscal disaster, not just a fake "default" threat. We absolutely will have to work on every program, even those that are "sacred cows" like the military spending, etc. I don't give a rip if Hannity thinks that we "cannot" cut that, we have to, and before this is over if we're going to get out of it with our credit rating intact we'll have changes in all the programs we all hold so "dear"...

You can try to convince yourself that something is "untouchable" but you will be wrong. We either do it now, or we have to do it when our fiscal policy brings our nation to bankruptcy and "austerity" measures and there is nobody left to give our nation a "bailout"...
 
Damn Yankee said:
Our default position is not to raise the debt limit at all. That would result in huge cuts in government spending. I do believe that we have a royal flush against your two pair. :)
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You don't have shit. The only thing the U.S. has going for it right now is that oil is traded in dollars and we print dollars. If we default, there is already a backup currency in the works for trading oil.
 
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