If Obama loses, DEMOCRATS will have opened the door to disaster

[blackascoal]

If Obama loses this coming election, democrats might as well shut up, drop your pants and take whatever is coming .. because you have opened the door to Hell.

What will you be able to say about Gitmo? Nothing

What will you be able to say about attacks on civil liberties? Nothing

What will you be able to say about the Bush tax cuts? Nothing

What will you be able to say about needless and destructive wars? Absolutely nothing

What will you be able to say to Romney about Wall Street in our government? Nothing

What will you be able to say about draconian drug laws and the prison industrial complex? Nothing .. particularly for African-Americans .. what will we be able to say about the war on drugs which disportionally affects us more than anyobe else? Not a damn thing

What will you say about Romney attacking and killing innocent people all over the world? Nothing

What will you be able to say about anti-americanism? Nothing

On these and many other issues, democrats won't have an argument because they've said nothing about these issues to Obama. Romney will get a free hand to do virtually anything he wants. In pursuit of "lesser evil", democrats and the left have abandoned the very principles that defined them as democrats and the left.

The partisan and unprinciped nature of politics in America is a big contributer to why 90 million Americans won't vote this election.

Without principles, what are you? A "pragmatist?" If Obama loses, you'll be hard pressed to demonstrate how trading principles for lesser evil was the pragmatic thing to do.

 

[canceled.2021.1]

If Obama loses this coming election, democrats might as well shut up, drop your pants and take whatever is coming .. because you have opened the door to Hell.

What will you be able to say about Gitmo? Nothing

What will you be able to say about attacks on civil liberties? Nothing

What will you be able to say about the Bush tax cuts? Nothing

What will you be able to say about needless and destructive wars? Absolutely nothing

What will you be able to say to Romney about Wall Street in our government? Nothing

What will you be able to say about draconian drug laws and the prison industrial complex? Nothing .. particularly for African-Americans .. what will we be able to say about the war on drugs which disportionally affects us more than anyobe else? Not a damn thing

What will you say about Romney attacking and killing innocent people all over the world? Nothing

What will you be able to say about anti-americanism? Nothing

On these and many other issues, democrats won't have an argument because they've said nothing about these issues to Obama. Romney will get a free hand to do virtually anything he wants. In pursuit of "lesser evil", democrats and the left have abandoned the very principles that defined them as democrats and the left.

The partisan and unprinciped nature of politics in America is a big contributer to why 90 million Americans won't vote this election.

Without principles, what are you? A "pragmatist?" If Obama loses, you'll be hard pressed to demonstrate how trading principles for lesser evil was the pragmatic thing to do.

I sort of agree with you, but you are missing one salient point. The media will be all over Romney in a way they won't do with Obama. These people don know because they don't want to know. They cloak any criticism of Obama in "racism" or "it's bushs fault" or whatever else their cognitive dissonance tells them. But rest assured they will not questioned their belief in Obama because it would take a level of self awareness that they do not possess. They have put too much into him. Doing what you just did would be too painful for them.

I admire your principles even if I disagree with them. But are you really not going to pull the lever for Obama?

Therein lies the fundamental problem. He knows deep down you are still going to vote for hin

 

[blackascoal]

I sort of agree with you, but you are missing one salient point. The media will be all over Romney in a way they won't do with Obama. These people don know because they don't want to know. They cloak any criticism of Obama in "racism" or "it's bushs fault" or whatever else their cognitive dissonance tells them. But rest assured they will not questioned their belief in Obama because it would take a level of self awareness that they do not possess. They have put too much into him. Doing what you just did would be too painful for them.

I admire your principles even if I disagree with them. But are you really not going to pull the lever for Obama?

Therein lies the fundamental problem. He knows deep down you are still going to vote for hin

I have never missed the point that Romney will be attacked for the exact same things that Obama can get away get away with without any opposition from the left .. and I defy anyone to challenge that truth. If you've read anything I've written about Obama's value to the corptocracy, you'd know that I often speak of it.

Additionally, no, HELL NO, I am not voting for Obama, nor did I in 2008. I'm not voting for Romney either, but that's a different story that I'm sure you've read me say before. I'm on the left, but I have no illusions that democrats here want to talk about this.

There in lies my fate on a message board. I don't buy either corporate-owned muppet. I don't see democrats or republicans doing anything but trying to win elections .. neither side cares about the best interests of the country .. and there are millions of Americans who see the same thing.

The problem is that principles and politics don't mix .. and like Thoreau, I believe the principled life is the only life worth living.

That doesn't work well on a message board .. but I don't care.

 

[Bonestorm]

I'm going to start voting for write-in candidates only so I can bitch about everyone and everything without ever worrying about my preferred policies being implemented. It seems like fun.

 

[Bonestorm]

If Obama loses this coming election, democrats might as well shut up, drop your pants and take whatever is coming .. because you have opened the door to Hell.

What will you be able to say about Gitmo? Nothing

I'll say it should be closed.

What will you be able to say about attacks on civil liberties? Nothing

It depends on the "attacks on civil liberties." Not sure what you're driving at here.

What will you be able to say about the Bush tax cuts? Nothing

That they should expire.

What will you be able to say about needless and destructive wars? Absolutely nothing

That they shouldn't be started.

What will you be able to say to Romney about Wall Street in our government? Nothing

That it's bad.

What will you be able to say about draconian drug laws and the prison industrial complex? Nothing .. particularly for African-Americans .. what will we be able to say about the war on drugs which disportionally affects us more than anyobe else? Not a damn thing

That it's evil.

What will you say about Romney attacking and killing innocent people all over the world? Nothing

That he shouldn't do that.

What will you be able to say about anti-americanism? Nothing

Um . . . not following you here.

On these and many other issues, democrats won't have an argument because they've said nothing about these issues to Obama. Romney will get a free hand to do virtually anything he wants. In pursuit of "lesser evil", democrats and the left have abandoned the very principles that defined them as democrats and the left.

The partisan and unprinciped nature of politics in America is a big contributer to why 90 million Americans won't vote this election.

Without principles, what are you? A "pragmatist?" If Obama loses, you'll be hard pressed to demonstrate how trading principles for lesser evil was the pragmatic thing to do.

I don't trade my principles by voting for the candidate with the best chance to win that is closest to my principles. I mean, you can pat yourself on the back for your useless purity if you want to, but let's not get carried away here. The assholes of the world don't have principles. They'll vote for the candidate that best furthers their asshole interests. I'm not ready to completely concede the country to them as you seem intent on doing.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I have never missed the point that Romney will be attacked for the exact same things that Obama can get away get away with without any opposition from the left .. and I defy anyone to challenge that truth. If you've read anything I've written about Obama's value to the corptocracy, you'd know that I often speak of it.

Additionally, no, HELL NO, I am not voting for Obama, nor did I in 2008. I'm not voting for Romney either, but that's a different story that I'm sure you've read me say before. I'm on the left, but I have no illusions that democrats here want to talk about this.

There in lies my fate on a message board. I don't buy either corporate-owned muppet. I don't see democrats or republicans doing anything but trying to win elections .. neither side cares about the best interests of the country .. and there are millions of Americans who see the same thing.

The problem is that principles and politics don't mix .. and like Thoreau, I believe the principled life is the only life worth living.

That doesn't work well on a message board .. but I don't care.

I for one, do not doubt one word of the above. While we disagree on a great many things, you have been consistent in your criticisms regardless of who is in office.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

If Obama loses this coming election, democrats might as well shut up, drop your pants and take whatever is coming .. because you have opened the door to Hell.

What will you be able to say about Gitmo? Nothing

What will you be able to say about attacks on civil liberties? Nothing

What will you be able to say about the Bush tax cuts? Nothing

What will you be able to say about needless and destructive wars? Absolutely nothing

What will you be able to say to Romney about Wall Street in our government? Nothing

What will you be able to say about draconian drug laws and the prison industrial complex? Nothing .. particularly for African-Americans .. what will we be able to say about the war on drugs which disportionally affects us more than anyobe else? Not a damn thing

What will you say about Romney attacking and killing innocent people all over the world? Nothing

What will you be able to say about anti-americanism? Nothing

On these and many other issues, democrats won't have an argument because they've said nothing about these issues to Obama. Romney will get a free hand to do virtually anything he wants. In pursuit of "lesser evil", democrats and the left have abandoned the very principles that defined them as democrats and the left.

The partisan and unprinciped nature of politics in America is a big contributer to why 90 million Americans won't vote this election.

Without principles, what are you? A "pragmatist?" If Obama loses, you'll be hard pressed to demonstrate how trading principles for lesser evil was the pragmatic thing to do.

on the flip side, what can you say about the economy?.....Hallelujah!.......

 

[blackascoal]

I'll say it should be closed.

YOU may, IF you said that to Obama .. but the Democratic Party cannot.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

It depends on the "attacks on civil liberties." Not sure what you're driving at here.

Perhaps you are unaware of Obama's attacks on civil liberties .. if not, you should educate yourself on them. But I'm betting that you do know of Obama killing an American citizen without trial .. he killed two actually. If you said nothing about that .. what will you say when Romnet starts killing Americans he doesn't like?

That they should expire.

YOU can say that IF that's wht you said when Obama extended them, the Democratic Party will have to roll over when Romney extends them as they did when Obama did.

Correct me if I'm wrong

That they shouldn't be started.

Same same.

That it's bad.

Same same.

That it's evil.

That he shouldn't do that.

Same same

Um . . . not following you here.

We all made a big deal .. myself included .. about rising anti-americanism all over the world that resulted from Bush's wars. Yet, little to nothing has been said about that on this side of the fence since Obama's election. Suddenly we were no longer concerned about the issue of rising anti-americanism. But whether the democrats and the left was paying attention or not, anti-americanism is on the rise again .. due to Obama's use of drones which are killing more innocent people than terrorists. and his attack on planet earth .. which also gets missed.

As anti-Americanism rises
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/NE08Ae01.html

Drone Attacks Only Create More Enemies for the US
https://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/08/05-0

Rising Anti-Americanism in Pakistan
http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/06/13/rising-anti-americanism-in-pakistan/

How did we miss that?

I don't trade my principles by voting for the candidate with the best chance to win that is closest to my principles. I mean, you can pat yourself on the back for your useless purity if you want to, but let's not get carried away here. The assholes of the world don't have principles. They'll vote for the candidate that best furthers their asshole interests. I'm not ready to completely concede the country to them as you seem intent on doing.

You can pat yourself on your pat for your useless capitualtion with evil .. but in doing so you just push the bar further to the right. Democrats today are to the right of Richard Nixon .. who had a far better health care plan.

My post was not to attack you personally, and I appreciate you discussing this. But to suggest that capitulation is the best course for this country .. that's something I seriously disagree with, and now if Obama loses .. that capitulation has opened the door to disaster.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

I'm waiting to be entertained by the comments from both left and right when those few of us remaining are still talking about being militia members get demonized by both sides. The right will claim we're guilty of treason and the left will hypocritically accuse us of not doing anything while they do nothing but bitch like little pussies.

 

[canceled.2021.1]

I have never missed the point that Romney will be attacked for the exact same things that Obama can get away get away with without any opposition from the left .. and I defy anyone to challenge that truth. If you've read anything I've written about Obama's value to the corptocracy, you'd know that I often speak of it.

Additionally, no, HELL NO, I am not voting for Obama, nor did I in 2008. I'm not voting for Romney either, but that's a different story that I'm sure you've read me say before. I'm on the left, but I have no illusions that democrats here want to talk about this.

There in lies my fate on a message board. I don't buy either corporate-owned muppet. I don't see democrats or republicans doing anything but trying to win elections .. neither side cares about the best interests of the country .. and there are millions of Americans who see the same thing.

The problem is that principles and politics don't mix .. and like Thoreau, I believe the principled life is the only life worth living.

That doesn't work well on a message board .. but I don't care.

I admire your beliefs. We are actually quite similar although complete polar opposites in ideology. I gave up on te GOP long ago and don't want to play the "my team is better than your team" game. Te current crop of GOP sycophants don't want to admit that when the GOP had the reigns they grew government which is anathema to me.

Whether this matters to you or not, I actually have more respect for you than many who claim to agree with me because I prefer those who put principle over party than the mindless sheep in both sides.

Kudos Sir!

 

[cawacko]

I'm going to start voting for write-in candidates only so I can bitch about everyone and everything without ever worrying about my preferred policies being implemented. It seems like fun.

I've heard people say 'if you don't vote you can't complain about who's in office' but would it be more appropriate to say 'if you don't vote Democratic or Republican you can't complain'? Why continue voting for the same crappy candidates if you don't like them?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I've heard people say 'if you don't vote you can't complain about who's in office' but would it be more appropriate to say 'if you don't vote Democratic or Republican you can't complain'? Why continue voting for the same crappy candidates if you don't like them?

because some people are beholden to one party or the other. They refuse to look at third party candidates because they buy into the concept that they are 'wasting' their vote if they do. It is that mindset that allows the two parties to maintain their stranglehold on the elections.

 

[Bonestorm]

I've heard people say 'if you don't vote you can't complain about who's in office' but would it be more appropriate to say 'if you don't vote Democratic or Republican you can't complain'? Why continue voting for the same crappy candidates if you don't like them?

You can always complain whether you vote or not. But of you do vote, the best thing about voting for candidates that don't have a shot at actually winning is that you always get to bitch about the candidate that does win and never have to answer for the shitty/stupid/evil things the person that you voted for ends up doing while in office.

 

[Bonestorm]

because some people are beholden to one party or the other. They refuse to look at third party candidates because they buy into the concept that they are 'wasting' their vote if they do. It is that mindset that allows the two parties to maintain their stranglehold on the elections.

Not wasting your vote, just not voting for a candidate that will actually win, which as I've explained, has unparalleled benefits.

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

I've heard people say 'if you don't vote you can't complain about who's in office' but would it be more appropriate to say 'if you don't vote Democratic or Republican you can't complain'? Why continue voting for the same crappy candidates if you don't like them?

I haven't heard anyone say that in a while. I definitely used to hear people say it pretty often. I wonder if people stopped saying it because everyone finally realized they are all effed up?

 

[blackascoal]

I admire your beliefs. We are actually quite similar although complete polar opposites in ideology. I gave up on te GOP long ago and don't want to play the "my team is better than your team" game. Te current crop of GOP sycophants don't want to admit that when the GOP had the reigns they grew government which is anathema to me.

Whether this matters to you or not, I actually have more respect for you than many who claim to agree with me because I prefer those who put principle over party than the mindless sheep in both sides.

Kudos Sir!

Thank you.

It does matter to me brother .. and I sincerly hope that we can maintain this mutual respect going forward.

 

[blackascoal]

Not wasting your vote, just not voting for a candidate that will actually win, which as I've explained, has unparalleled benefits.

So if your candidate doesn't win, did you waste your vote?

My argument has never been that democrats should not vote for Obama or whomever they chose.

My argument is that even if you vote for someone, are you then more beholden to that individual more than your own core principles? Vote for whomever and support whomever .. but stand your ground on core principles. The American people must be the engine that pushes politics or the corporations will be.

And, principles so easily exchanged for political expediency are not principles at all. They may be principled ideas .. in that ideas are more easily changed .. but principles are not.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

So if your candidate doesn't win, did you waste your vote?

My argument has never been that democrats should not vote for Obama or whomever they chose.

My argument is that even if you vote for someone, are you then more beholden to that individual more than your own core principles? Vote for whomever and support whomever .. but stand your ground on core principles. The American people must be the engine that pushes politics or the corporations will be.

And, principles so easily exchanged for political expediency are not principles at all. They may be principled ideas .. in that ideas are more easily changed .. but principles are not.

Very well stated.

 

[blackascoal]

What will democrats say to Romney about the war on marijuana?

Wasn't Obama supported .. particularly by the youth .. to do something about the war on weed?

He did do something about it .. he increased it beyond what George Bush had done.

Obama's War On Weed In California: Cannabis Crackdown Has Dire Economic Consequences

SAN FRANCISCO -- It's been less than a year since the Obama administration launched an aggressive crackdown on medical marijuana in California, and the government's actions have already taken a significant toll on the economy.

Since Department of Justice officials announced last October that they would be going after cannabis operations throughout the state, hundreds of dispensaries from San Diego to Yuba County have been forced to shut down. Thousands of employees at said businesses have lost their jobs as a result, and California is losing out on much-needed sales tax revenue.

"The average dispensary employs half a dozen to ten people and has gross revenues on the order of $500,000 to $1 million per year," Dale Gieringer, director of the California chapter of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML), told The Huffington Post. "Therefore we are talking about thousands of legal jobs and tens of millions in tax revenues lost."

Though the drug remains illegal under federal law, California became the first state to legalize cannabis for medicinal purposes when voters passed Proposition 215 in 1996. Recent figures released by Americans for Safe Access (ASA), a national coalition dedicated to promoting legal access to the plant, revealed that medical marijuana sales generate upwards of $100 million in annual tax revenues for the state.

California's coffers could certainly benefit from that money. State leaders are struggling to close a foreboding $16 billion budget deficit. Governor Jerry Brown has repeatedly warned that if voters fail to pass his plan to temporarily increase taxes in November, he will be forced to implement severe cuts to schools and public safety services.

But federal officials have plunged ahead with their war on weed, sending threatening letters to dispensaries across the state warning that their storefronts operate too close to parks and schools. Oakland's Harborside Health Center, known as the "nation's largest pot shop," has been targeted for closure simply because it's too big.

Harborside brings in some $20 million each year and employs more than 100 workers. Since Oakland imposes a five percent business tax on cannabis, its shuttering would not only cost the city dozens of jobs, but more than $1 million in potential revenues.

Meanwhile, U.S. Attorney Melinda Haag has been seeking information about every dispensary currently open in San Francisco. The city has lost nearly half of its pot shops in the past year -- nine have been forced to close since October. This summer, two dispensaries known for their close-knit communities of patients, The Vapor Room and HopeNet, shut down.

During his time on the campaign trail and shortly after taking office, President Obama and other high-level members of his administration repeatedly stated that they would not go after marijuana operations in states that had legalized cannabis for medicinal purposes. The reasons behind the government's about-face largely remain unclear.

"I can't speak for the Obama administration; I can't speculate," said ASA spokesman Kris Hermes. "The federal government is not giving up and it's absolutely puzzling why they would put so many thousands of patients into harm's way."

Hermes pointed out that many patients have been forced to purchase marijuana using illegal means or simply go without, a plight highlighted in a recent video featuring a variety of regular Harborside customers. "People should be able to benefit from a medicine that is legal under their own state's law," he added.

Obama broke his relative silence on the issue in interview with Rolling Stone in April. "What I specifically said was that we were not going to prioritize prosecutions of persons who are using medical marijuana," the president said. "I never made a commitment that somehow we were going to give carte blanche to large-scale producers and operators of marijuana."

Hermes disagrees that the federal government has only been targeting a specific type of business. "It's an indiscriminate attack. They arent going after dispensaries that are breaking state law; they're investigating all of them," he explained. "They've been pretty effective at intimidating the entire medical marijuana community. Much more so than Bush was during his time in office."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/28/obamas-war-on-weed-in-california_n_1835290.html

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

The war on drugs, like so many other federal endeavors is a complete and total failure. They should immediately release all non-violent drug offenders from prison with an apology for being so blatantly stupid as to lock people up for smoking mj etc... Then they should implement a work training program for those being released to ensure they have the opportunity for gainful employment (if they do not already possess such).

Legalize the drugs, then tax them like alcohol. Learn that prohibition doesn't work.