If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book

gfm7175 said:
Sounds about right.

In fact, I attend a Lutheran church (but that term in and of itself is a rather broad one, as plenty of Lutheran churches have unfortunately "conformed to the world" [disregarding the "uncomfortable" portions of The Bible] while other Lutheran churches still view The Bible as the ultimate authority (and don't attempt to change it to conform to "the world").

For instance, the ELCA is a very "worldly" Lutheran denomination. They ignore (or otherwise make their own adjustments to) what The Bible says about women pastors, abortion, marriage, and a host of other topics. Meanwhile, the WELS is a very "biblical" Lutheran denomination. They don't allow for women to be pastors, they stand against abortion, they adhere to God's design for marriage, and they otherwise view The Bible as the ultimate authority on all matters.

They are both "Lutheran", but they hold VERY different views on "the issues".

As far as my church goes, we're not "howling and hand wringing" about the "scourge of atheism" (or the Church of No God for that matter). In a very basic sense, we generally confess our sins, worship God through song, go through some Bible readings, listen to a sermon relating to those Bible readings, pray about all sorts of stuff, partake in Holy Communion, and fellowship with each other.
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Sounds fine, gfm. People are going to worship what they may, even a stone...even believe in the Church of No God. Let 'em. They only miss out on what you and I have discovered.

The peace the gospel brings.
 
ZenMode said:
No human life expectancy would make the estimated age of the Earth, based on the geneologies in the Bible, make sense.
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The age of the Earth is unknown. Human life expectancy has varied widely.
ZenMode said:
Nope.

Incoherent babbling.

Blatant lie.

Lie and irrelevant.


Incoherent babbling.

In other news, cars aren't polar bears.

Incoherent babbling.
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Random phrases ignored.
 
Cypress said:
It is foolish to have faith without evidence.
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I have already listed quite a bit of objective evidence. You can't make it just disappear, Clanker.
Cypress said:
I would never even consider Christianity to be possibility unless I could convince myself it is rational.
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That's gonna be real tough for you, since you don't know what 'rational' even means. Go learn English and logic.
 
gfm7175 said:
For instance, the ELCA is a very "worldly" Lutheran denomination. They ignore (or otherwise make their own adjustments to) what The Bible says about women pastors, abortion, marriage, and a host of other topics. Meanwhile, the WELS is a very "biblical" Lutheran denomination. They don't allow for women to be pastors, they stand against abortion, they adhere to God's design for marriage, and they otherwise view The Bible as the ultimate authority on all matters.
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But nobody actually consistently follows the Golden rule and the Sermon on the mount.

You can't be on this board for 30 minutes without being insulted, demeaned, cursed at... often by posters who claim to be practicing Christians.

My colleagues are ECLA Lutherans, and that progressive kind of Christianity is fine with me.
 
Into the Night said:
I have already listed quite a bit of objective evidence!
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You are bouncing around all over the map. You just claimed in the previous post you base belief on faith, not evidence.

If I were to consider Christianity on a rational basis, I would need an intellectual foundation based on logic, inference, and historical data.
 
ZenMode said:
No backflips or gymnastics, just a reasonable extrapolation based on human life expectancy.
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Your gymnastical extrapolation is based on a rash of untestable assumptions: The seven days of creation literally are equivalent to 24 hour periods, there is no missing information from the geneologies, and that none of the language in Genesis is intended to be symbolic.

The bottom line is the Bible never specifies the age of the Earth, and even if it did it does not matter theologically, scientifically, or philosophically.
 
Cypress said:
Your gymnastical extrapolation is based on a rash of untestable assumptions: The seven days of creation literally are equivalent to 24 hour periods, there is no missing information from the geneologies, and that none of the language in Genesis is intended to be symbolic.

The bottom line is the Bible never specifies the age of the Earth,
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Like I mentioned earlier, if you know a house has been in a family for "3 generations" you can make a reasonable estimate regarding how long the house has been in the family.

If you know that same family was the original owner, and the house has been in the family for 3 generations, you can make a reasonable estimate on how old the house is.

The Bible - the Word of God himself - has a geneology going back to the original humans who were came into existence around the time the Earth was created. We can make a reasonable estimate of the age of the Earth based on life expectancy and the number of generations.
Cypress said:
and even if it did it does not matter theologically, scientifically, or philosophically.
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It absolutely matters scientifically and should matter theologically because the Bible is making claims, even if indirectly, about the age of the Earth that do not align with science. It makes claims that conflict with physics when a human is said to walk on the surface of water, and makes biological claims when it says a human came back to life after being dead for multiple days.
 
Cypress said:
But nobody actually consistently follows the Golden rule and the Sermon on the mount.
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Welcome to Christianity, Cypress.
Everyone sins and deserves eternal separation from God.
Cypress said:
You can't be on this board for 30 minutes without being insulted, demeaned, cursed at... often by posters who claim to be practicing Christians.
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Correct.
Cypress said:
My colleagues are ECLA Lutherans, and that progressive kind of Christianity is fine with me.
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Unfortunately, that "progressive kind of Christianity" is 'conforming to the world' instead of 'being transformed' by the renewal of one's mind. (Romans 12:2) That's something that the ELCA denomination should be mindful of, along with the Revelation 3 warnings to the Churches of Sardis and Laodicea.

My point here isn't to bash anyone for choosing to regularly attend (or for being a member of) an ELCA Lutheran church. "God's bride" can be found in ANY church. However, I do believe that they (as a denomination) are theologically straying away from God's Word and toward the "ways of the world". Because of this, I, in my own conscience, could never regularly attend (or become a member of) an ELCA Lutheran church, as important parts of their denomination's theology don't sit right in my own conscience and current biblical understanding.
 
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