If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book

[Into the Night]

Because Christians believe that an imaginary force, their god, is influencing events in the world.

Ah. So you don't know what 'superstition' means either.

 

[Into the Night]

I'm not ignoring anything.

Yes you are. You are ignoring literally mountains of evidence.

People can, and are, convinced of all kinds of improbable things, often based on poor evidence. There's a flat-earth society TODAY. There's people who believe the Greek gods exist TODAY. There are people who take astrology very seriously TODAY.

So?

Yes, you are one of the people I described above as as being "convinced of all kinds of improbable things".

Math error. Failure to specify boundary. Failure to specify randX. You are the only one attempting to bring up probability.

You have clearly been taken down a path that has lead you to all kinds of crazy beliefs about the world.

So your religion is 'better' than his religion. Meh. Every religion says the same thing.

You didn't.

Religion addresses what science has yet to address.

No science here. Religion is not science.

What science has yet to address has decreased, and will only continue to decrease, over time.

Math error. Failure to specify boundary. Attempt to specify boundary for an open functional system.

Like I said, superstitious beliefs, like religion,

Go learn what 'superstition' means, Void. Go learn English.

have resulted in people drilling holes in other peoples' heads.

Have bad experience with the last dentist that filled a cavity?

Science has taught us that is craziness.

No science being discussed here. Buzzword fallacy.

Superstition /religion was the basis for burning innocent women to death who were accused of being witches.

Who says they were innocent? Did you know that Wicca is also a religion today?

Science has done away with that.

Science is not being discussed here. Buzzword fallacy.

It's why innocent people were sacrificed or buried under buildings for good luck.

I suppose the Mafia putting their enemies in the cornerstone of a building could be considered 'good luck' for them!

Native Americans believe in all kinds of superstitions today.

Go learn what 'superstition' means, Void. Most native Americans in the United States are Christian.

All such beliefs are because of faith,

ALL religion is based on faith. Even yours.

not real evidence.

You cannot make the evidence supporting any religion just disappear, Void. I suspect you don't know what 'evidence' means either.

As I said, you are atheist for all the same gods I am...

He is not an atheist. He is a Christian. You are not an atheist either. You belong to the Church of No God. You are a fundamentalist.

.except one, so you know exactly what it means to not be convinced by the poor evidence of every other religion and god.

Your religion is no different than any other religion, Void. Yours is based on faith like any other.

 

[Into the Night]

Why do atheists scare believer so much?

They don't. One is a good friend of mine, even though I am a Christian.

Is it really because we don't find your evidence compelling and you can't imagine why?

You are not an atheist.

 

[Into the Night]

What's next... Jeffrey Dahmer telling guys not to kill men and have sex with their corpse?

YARP.

 

[Into the Night]

You've yet to make evidence appear.

You cannot make the evidence just disappear, Void.

 

[Into the Night]

My beliefs are based on evidence. The beliefs of religious people are based on faith, because, again, if all writings about/memories of the Christian god were wiped from the earth, there would be nothing to revive the belief of the Christian god.

You can't wipe anything from the Earth, Void. Your religion is based on faith, just as Christianity is based on faith.

You are as atheistic as I am as it relates to all of the gods that man has ever made up, except one.

You are not an atheist. You are a fundamentalist.

There is no more evidence for your God than there is for all those other gods you don't believe in.

You cannot make evidence just disappear, Void.

 

[Into the Night]

"Trying to prove one True or False, however, as you do, IS."

It's not proving anything.

Correct. You ARE trying to, however. Circular argument fallacy (fundamentalism).

It's aligning ones beliefs with available evidence or lack of evidence in this case.

You cannot make evidence just disappear, Void.

 

[Into the Night]

YARP. Assumption of victory fallacy. Circular argument fallacy (fundamentalism).

 

[Into the Night]

I never play the "evidence" game with Atheists, I tell them they made a choice now walk the path you chose!

What 'evidence game'? What is an 'evidence game'?

 

[Into the Night]

To be quite fair to believers: none of them ever actually do. They want to, oh most assuredly. Every believer secretly understands that they should have a defensible reason for belief and they can all trot those "reasons" out. The key is: can those reasons convince others?

The fact that so few of those reasons can actually convince others is frightening to consider. It's best to act as if "evidence" for a belief is somehow "unnecessary".

But it never is. It's just hidden because the believer can't get others to hop on board their wagon.



So failing to believe YOU is a choice that I will have to take responsibility for? That's a lot of hubris.

Not really. You are free to make a choice. You are NOT free of the consequences of that choice.
It doesn't matter if the choice is 'right' or 'wrong', as interpreted by anyone else.

 

[Into the Night]

It takes faith to be an atheist too.

Atheism is not a faith or a religion.

I also used to also think all Christians were superstitious fools.

Go learn what 'superstition' means.

Until I decided to lay my preconceived biases at the doorstep and investigate with an open mind.

CS Lewis and the preeminent American geneticist Francis Collins wrote up powerful cases for a rational Christianity. And whether I agreed with them or not, these men were not making idiotic arguments.

The esteemedt paleontologist Steven Gould famously said about fifty percent of his scientific colleagues were religious, and he could not convince himself that half his colleagues in the science community were fools and rubes.

Science is not a community.

 

[ZenMode]

Ah. So you don't know what 'superstition' means either.

To be honest I have no idea how you define any word. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that we both know what it means to be superstitious. You just don't want to admit that it applies to your magical sky wizard. You want to believe it applies to all the other magical sky wizards, just not the one you believe in.

 

[Into the Night]

Yeah. But "believing" there are no gods is not reasoning...it is just blind guessing.

No. It's an act of faith, just like any religion. The Church of No God is a fundamentalist style religion.

Do you do that? Blindly guess there are no gods.

Blindly? No, there is also evidence supporting the Church of No God, just as there is evidence supporting Christianity.

Because, Zen...it sounds to me as though you do...and will then do what most atheists do when debating...deny that they believe "blindly guess" that way.

He is not an atheist. He is a fundamentalist.

Yup. I suspect I am correct about you on this.

Nope. Dead wrong.

C'mon. Engage with an agnostic perspective...rather than trying to beat up on theists.

He IS a theist.

 

[ZenMode]

Correct. You ARE trying to, however. Circular argument fallacy (fundamentalism).

You cannot make evidence just disappear, Void.

You can't make evidence appear.

 

[ZenMode]

You cannot make evidence just disappear, Void.

You still can't make evidence appear.

 

[Into the Night]

Not really. When I look at the evidence for the Christian god, or the god of any other religion, and think "I just don't see a reason to believe in any of them based on the (lack of) evidence", that's not faith. That's reasoning

You can't make evidence just disappear, Void. You are not reasoning. You are preaching.

That really just proves how widespread religious superstition is, not that there's any additional evidence to believe in the gods of any religions.

Go learn what 'superstition' means. You cannot make evidence just disappear, Void.

 

[Into the Night]

Religion really does not require faith.

ALL religion requires faith.

Actually, all religion (or atheism) has to do is to call "belief" what it actually is on this issue...a blind guess about the unknown.

Atheism is not a religion.

Then it all clears up. The atheists blindly guess one way...the theists blindly guess the other way.

Atheism is not 'guessing'. Atheism is not a religion.

 

[Into the Night]

Atheists are materialists, who believe matter and energy is all that exists - that matter and energy is fully explanatory of origin, and of all reality. They believe the universe blinked into existence by purely random inanimate reasons

Atheism is not a religion. They don't make assumptions about the Universe. Go learn what 'real' means. Every single religion is based on reality.

That is a faith based ideology

Atheism is not a religion.

Now you're just trolling, how disappointing.
The rational basis for Christianity is based on the cosmological argument, the teleological argument, the moral argument, the historical argument.

WRONG. The rational basis of Christianity (or any other religion) is based on a circular argument, or Argument of Faith.

If you are the type of person who can stand to read something from a point of view other than your own, I suggest The Abolition of Man, and Mere Christianity. Whether you agree with him or not, I maintain you will not find CS Lewis to be a fool or rube

You will find Void to be quite intolerant. He is a hardcore fundamentalist.

 

[Into the Night]

To be honest I have no idea how you define any word.

I don't define words, Void. Your continued attempt to redefine words and use meaningless buzzwords (because you don't know the meaning of many words) is YOUR problem.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that we both know what it means to be superstitious.

Go learn what superstitious means, Void.

You just don't want to admit that it applies to your magical sky wizard.

What 'magical sky wizard'? I'm a Christian. I don't believe in magical sky wizards.

You want to believe it applies to all the other magical sky wizards, just not the one you believe in.

I don't believe in magical sky wizards, Void.

 

[Into the Night]

You can't make evidence appear.

You still can't make evidence appear.

You cannot make evidence just disappear, Void.