If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book

Apostle_Frank said:
That doesn't address the point.



So a super-creator which is more powerful than the creator? Do we owe any worship to that super-creator? And who created the super-creator? Is there a super-super-creator that created the super creator who, in turn, created the Creator (God)?



That's not much of a distinction. There are many things in science in which the "why" is explicitly investigated.



So then you have other universes that we know were designed so we know how a designed universe looks?

I mean there are crystals in nature that are so perfect you'd think they had to be carved by a person but they are perfectly natural. Just because something appears designed does not necessarily mean it is designed.



That's because we know where watches come from. We have analogues of the designer. For God not so much.

And besides: given that we can comprehend almost nothing about God as he is, then how on earth can "God did it" be a useful explanation? And why is that literally 100% of the times in which it was originally proposed "God did that" that we find out it was perfectly natural (earthquakes due to continents moving, storms due to weather, floods due to topography and weather...etc.)
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It addresses it perfectly.

If there is something, which there is, then it had to be created since nothing creates itself. Until such tine as science figures out how to create something from material not presently in existence i see no problem believing I an entity beyond our knowledge that can do so.
 
Yakuda said:
It addresses it perfectly.

If there is something, which there is, then it had to be created since nothing creates itself. Until such tine as science figures out how to create something from material not presently in existence i see no problem believing I an entity beyond our knowledge that can do so.
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So who created the creator that created the creator that created the creator that created the earth? And then who created that creator?
 
Yakuda said:
It addresses it perfectly.

If there is something, which there is, then it had to be created since nothing creates itself. Until such tine as science figures out how to create something from material not presently in existence i see no problem believing I an entity beyond our knowledge that can do so.
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Beyond the same fucking “something from nothing” bullshit, you seem to need a “why” on this creator of yours. OK, let’s play.

“Why” did this watchmaker create such a broken fucking watch?
 
Yakuda said:
What if is meaningless. What is is, that there is something rather than nothing.

I don't know where the the creator comes but if what is didnt always exist something outside time and space as we perceive it had to create it.

Science is incapable of answering any "why" question. It may explain how a thing works not why it works. How is not the same as why.

That's an individual problem not a grend issue problem. What we have is a universe tuned specifically enough that it screams that's is the product of a mind. It's the watchmaker scenario. No one finds a watch and things this always exist or all the individual pieces just accidentally fell into place to produce a functional watch
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Your watchmaker. Does he have any attributes other than making a watch that can’t keep very good time?
 
If the universe is a testament to the existence of a Creator, is that Creator ANY of the gods that humans have invented over the millennia?

It seems one thing to marvel at the universe and suspect there is a design to it all and hence a designer, it is quite another to propose specific features of that designer.

So far we have countless gods, many of whom have very specific requirements of their creation.

Which one is the Creator? And how do we know that?
 
Apostle_Frank said:
If the universe is a testament to the existence of a Creator, is that Creator ANY of the gods that humans have invented over the millennia?

It seems one thing to marvel at the universe and suspect there is a design to it all and hence a designer, it is quite another to propose specific features of that designer.

So far we have countless gods, many of whom have very specific requirements of their creation.
,
Which one is the Creator? And how do we know that?
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Why don't you have the nerve to rely to me directly?

As to your first question I don't know but it certainly universe isn't here because random thinks happened and poof.

I also can't tell you the specific features of the person(s) that designed my car so my car must I obviously be the result of random things happened that created a fully functioning automobile. Now THAT would he fucking amazing.

We don't have countless gods YOU do.

Thats not my issue to resolve. What I see is something rather than nothing and the fact there is something rather than nothing suggests a mind.
 
Apostle_Frank said:
If the universe is a testament to the existence of a Creator, is that Creator ANY of the gods that humans have invented over the millennia?

It seems one thing to marvel at the universe and suspect there is a design to it all and hence a designer, it is quite another to propose specific features of that designer.

So far we have countless gods, many of whom have very specific requirements of their creation.

Which one is the Creator? And how do we know that?
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Jesus is your Savior, the end. No point in debating Christians.
 
Yakuda said:
Why don't you have the nerve to rely to me directly?

As to your first question I don't know but it certainly universe isn't here because random thinks happened and poof.

I also can't tell you the specific features of the person(s) that designed my car so my car must I obviously be the result of random things happened that created a fully functioning automobile. Now THAT would he fucking amazing.

We don't have countless gods YOU do.

Thats not my issue to resolve. What I see is something rather than nothing and the fact there is something rather than nothing suggests a mind.
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SO which god do you worship? Al'lah? That's a very common one, quite popular.
 
domer76 said:
A short little Youtube from a former evangelical pastor. Did the fire and brimstone shit for decades until he finally came to his senses. For those of you who are in denial or wish to remain willfully ignorant, he basically says this:

“Christians go in with their god as an assumption rather than a conclusion. When in fact, after close examination, the virgin birth falls apart, the resurrection falls apart, the basis of morality falls apart, the promise of afterlife fizzles into fear based marketing.”

“The gods of Islam, of Judaism, of Christianity only exist in scripture. If they actually existed, we wouldn’t need the books to claim they did. Once the book fails, the god goes with it.”

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/gI_OCjTkQG4?si=cyukCFBlj2u2kI4k
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Ever hear of the Holy Spirit!?
 
domer76 said:
“Why” did this watchmaker create such a broken fucking watch?
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Apostle_Frank said:
Which one is the Creator? And how do we know that?
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Yakuda said:
As to your first question I don't know but it certainly universe isn't here because random thinks happened and poof.
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Margot said:
Ever hear of the Holy Spirit!?
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Jesus H. Christ.

Why doesn't everybody just go with the most logical explanation for the true nature of Existence?

MORE THAN LIKELY...NOBODY KNOWS.

There is not a clue that is even close to sufficient for a human to make a reasonable, informed guess.

The very best any of us can do is to make what is essentially a blind guess. The blind guess can be a variation of:

1) There is (or was) a CREATOR...and, it appears that folk who make that blind guess just have to go on to make further blind guesses about the nature of the CREATOR being guessed...what pleases it; what offends it; what it expects of humans; and so forth.

2) There is no CREATOR (are no creators) and never has been.

Or you can just acknowledge the truth THAT WE DO NOT KNOW AND CANNOT ARRIVE AT A REASONABLE GUESS BASED ON SCIENCE, LOGIC, REASON, OR MATH.

People who blindly guess that there are no gods should stop challenging and making fun of those who claim there is a GOD (are GODS)...and those who blindly guess that there is a GOD should stop challenging and making fun of those who claim there are none.
 
Ross Dolan said:
Jesus H. Christ.

Why doesn't everybody just go with the most logical explanation for the true nature of Existence?

MORE THAN LIKELY...NOBODY KNOWS.

There is not a clue that is even close to sufficient for a human to make a reasonable, informed guess.

The very best any of us can do is to make what is essentially a blind guess. The blind guess can be a variation of:

1) There is (or was) a CREATOR...and, it appears that folk who make that blind guess just have to go on to make further blind guesses about the nature of the CREATOR being guessed...what pleases it; what offends it; what it expects of humans; and so forth.

2) There is no CREATOR (are no creators) and never has been.

Or you can just acknowledge the truth THAT WE DO NOT KNOW AND CANNOT ARRIVE AT A REASONABLE GUESS BASED ON SCIENCE, LOGIC, REASON, OR MATH.

People who blindly guess that there are no gods should stop challenging and making fun of those who claim there is a GOD (are GODS)...and those who blindly guess that there is a GOD should stop challenging and making fun of those who claim there are none.
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The question about what to do about laws made to propitiate any gods being blindly guessed about is another problem all together.

We can discuss that...but first we must acknowledge that it truly is "another problem all together."
 
Ross Dolan said:
Jesus H. Christ.

Why doesn't everybody just go with the most logical explanation for the true nature of Existence?

MORE THAN LIKELY...NOBODY KNOWS.

There is not a clue that is even close to sufficient for a human to make a reasonable, informed guess.

The very best any of us can do is to make what is essentially a blind guess. The blind guess can be a variation of:

1) There is (or was) a CREATOR...and, it appears that folk who make that blind guess just have to go on to make further blind guesses about the nature of the CREATOR being guessed...what pleases it; what offends it; what it expects of humans; and so forth.

2) There is no CREATOR (are no creators) and never has been.

Or you can just acknowledge the truth THAT WE DO NOT KNOW AND CANNOT ARRIVE AT A REASONABLE GUESS BASED ON SCIENCE, LOGIC, REASON, OR MATH.

People who blindly guess that there are no gods should stop challenging and making fun of those who claim there is a GOD (are GODS)...and those who blindly guess that there is a GOD should stop challenging and making fun of those who claim there are none.
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Jesus doesn't have a middle name starting with "H"!
 
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