If Evolution is true, how did DNA code itself

Thing1 said:
You're really grasping at straws here. Yes, there have been mass extinctions - but even with those, it's not like oceanic niches were wide open for "new life" to take hold. There was still abundant evolved life - particularly in the deep ocean areas - that would make winning any evolutionary competition impossible for an unevolved single-cell organism. Even on a microscopic level, there was MUCH more evolved life in oceanic niches, and those kinds of organisms were still abundant even after mass extinctions. Even if they weren't, they'd still win the competition to re-populate any free niches because of their more evolved state of being.

And the conditions were nothing like the primordial earth at any of those times, regardless. The "primordial soup" before life evolved was unique.

Look, if you want to believe a god did everything, have at it. I don't judge that or feel offended by it in any way. But that's a personal belief; there is no science to it whatsoever.
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The Permian "volcanic" extinction certainly set the Earth back to primordial conditions.

Historically, Life was much less diverse than it is today, leaving plenty of niches to be filled.

I'm not arguing for God ... or Alien intervention. :D
 
sear said:
If a chemical can reproduce itself, what do you think the reproductions are going to do? And what do you think their offspring will do?
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their "offspring" will produce nothing except more chemicals.....

All that's necessary for "life" to have begun was for a chemical, barely sufficient to qualify as proto-DNA, would have been the characteristic of self-replication.

Think it through.
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you are wrong.....what is necessary for "life" to begin was that a chemical barely sufficient to qualify as prot-DNA and capable of only self-reproduction (which by the way didn't exist), to produce something which was more than just self.......this has never happened in any lab anywhere, anytime, anywhen.....

(which by the way didn't exist)
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to make sure you understand this, amino acids don't reproduce.......a chemical reaction occurs when an otherwise inert catalyst comes into contact with otherwise inert organic chemicals......through that reaction an amino acid is formed.......this is not reproduction......
 
Darth Omar said:
There's no end to the speculation on how life began. And in virtually all cases, it's hard to know when the science ends and the science fiction begins.

Suffice to say, none of it threatens a theistic worldview---much less from a logical standpoint.
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It threatens any theistic worldview that says god populated the world with present day forms with the snap of his noodle appendages, like the Bible says happened in a single day. If your religion is scant on any details then it is not threatened.
 
Bigdog said:
The Permian "volcanic" extinction certainly set the Earth back to primordial conditions.

Historically, Life was much less diverse than it is today, leaving plenty of niches to be filled.

I'm not arguing for God ... or Alien intervention. :D
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Re: the bolded: what is going to win the competition to fill those niches - already established and evolved multicellular life, or newly created, unevolved monocellular life?

Survival of the fittest.
 
Thing1 said:
There is actually a growing school of thought in the scientific community that it happened many times in the primordial earth, but life kept getting "snuffed out" because the meteor activity was so immense at that time.

We're talking about vast stretches of time here; that's the one thing we're missing from our experimentation today. We can create all of the conditions from that time, but not the hundreds of millions of years involved for random things (like self-replication) to happen.

I'm not an atheist, btw. I think religious belief and scientific thought on the origins of life & evolution aren't necessarily contradictory. But I have always felt like the idea that, "well this makes no logical sense - so we should explain it with something that makes the LEAST logical sense (and all-knowing, all-powerful being that came out of nowhere)" is a little odd.
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rejecting god of the gaps doesn't avoid the reality of gaps....
 
"there is nothing alive that doesn't have DNA......we know that to be true....." PP #81

There is nothing much alive TODAY that doesn't have DNA

BUT !!

Even if "......we know that to be true....." it's ridiculous to assume it has been so since day one. Genesis biochemistry simply doesn't work that way.

Here are few sources that'll make that point:

Amino Acids in Protein Can Be Assembled Without DNA and mRNA ...
www.techtimes.com/articles/24390/20...n-be-assembled-without-dna-and-mrna-study.htm
Jan 3, 2015 ... Amino Acids in Protein Can Be Assembled Without DNA and mRNA: Study. 3 January 2015, 9:03 am ...

How did the first life form on Earth reproduce without DNA?
biology.stackexchange.com/questions/39134/how-did-the-first-life-form-on-earth-reproduce-without-dna
Sep 28, 2015 ... How did the earliest life forms exist without DNA? ... life as we know it were RNA molecules that could self replicate (reproduce). .... For example, in humans the major form of amino acids is the levo form, or left-hand variation.

Humans did not spring whole from the mind of Zeus. The first proto-humans were a relatively recent evolutionary development, compared to DNA.

"there is nothing alive that doesn't have DNA..." PP #81

Define "alive".
 
Thing1 said:
Re: the bolded: what is going to win the competition to fill those niches - already established and evolved multicellular life, or newly created, unevolved monocellular life?

Survival of the fittest.
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It's called a niche for a reason. The ocean has barriers too.

The idea that life arose in the Sunless/lightless abyss doesn't even make sense. And yes, I am aware of life that is independent of sunlight at the ocean smokers.
 
Micawber said:
It threatens any theistic worldview that says god populated the world with present day forms with the snap of his noodle appendages, like the Bible says happened in a single day. If your religion is scant on any details then it is not threatened.
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I get the idea it's important to you that science refutes Christianity lol. I've never gotten anywhere with disciples of Dawkins so I won't waste time with that aspect.

Suffice to say, the notion that an infinite Being [said being rates the Cap B] is ultimately responsible is very much alive and well.
 
Micawber said:
It threatens any theistic worldview that says god populated the world with present day forms with the snap of his noodle appendages, like the Bible says happened in a single day. If your religion is scant on any details then it is not threatened.
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???....no threat to my theistic worldview what so ever.......God created creatures capable of evolving.......many different creatures capable of evolving into many other creatures capable of evolving.....
 
Milagro said:
It depends on whether you consider viruses to be alive, as many use RNA to reproduce.

Sent from Lenovo K5 Note:
To piss off snowflakes, bottom feeders and racists
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viruses do not reproduce.....they exude organic molecules that attach to living cells and are changed.....without living cells to attach to, there would be no viruses......
 
sear said:
"there is nothing alive that doesn't have DNA......we know that to be true....." PP #81

There is nothing much alive TODAY that doesn't have DNA

BUT !!

Even if "......we know that to be true....." it's ridiculous to assume it has been so since day one. Genesis biochemistry simply doesn't work that way.

Here are few sources that'll make that point:

Amino Acids in Protein Can Be Assembled Without DNA and mRNA ...
www.techtimes.com/articles/24390/20...n-be-assembled-without-dna-and-mrna-study.htm
Jan 3, 2015 ... Amino Acids in Protein Can Be Assembled Without DNA and mRNA: Study. 3 January 2015, 9:03 am ...

How did the first life form on Earth reproduce without DNA?
biology.stackexchange.com/questions/39134/how-did-the-first-life-form-on-earth-reproduce-without-dna
Sep 28, 2015 ... How did the earliest life forms exist without DNA? ... life as we know it were RNA molecules that could self replicate (reproduce). .... For example, in humans the major form of amino acids is the levo form, or left-hand variation.

Humans did not spring whole from the mind of Zeus. The first proto-humans were a relatively recent evolutionary development, compared to DNA.

"there is nothing alive that doesn't have DNA..." PP #81

Define "alive".
Click to expand...

there is nothing alive which doesn't have DNA.......amino acids are not alive....

How did the earliest life forms exist without DNA?
Click to expand...
there were no life forms that existed without DNA.....
 
Milagro said:
RNA is used to keep a copy of the DNA master, if DNA was used over and over then mistakes would occur and the code would be lost.



Sent from Lenovo K5 Note:
To piss off snowflakes, bottom feeders and racists
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That's not exactly correct. RNA is used to copy DNA's code then translate and transcribe the DNA codes into a specific amino acid sequence in protein synthesis.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
You keep telling yourself that.....I'm sure it will bring the you much comfort....
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I'm very comfortable pointing out that a first cause is illogical if you apply cause and effect to everything as part of your logic. It makes no sense to carve out a giant exception, conveniently for a deity creator to occupy. Who or what caused the creator? If he always existed there is no first cause. I'm more comfortable with that paradox than one where a God that did not exist making himself exist, without having been "caused."

Of course you can always claim he is outside cause effect, space/time or any other inconvenient aspect of observed reality.

God is going to lose any science debate, he can only survive lurking in recesses of philosophy or church.
 
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