I wish Iraq WAS like vietnam!

D

Dixie - In Memoriam

New member
I would be overjoyed, if we could handle Iraq in the same manner as we handled Vietnam. If it was simply a matter of withdrawing our troops and enduring the shame of defeat for a few decades, I could live with that. If we could simply pull our troops out and let the chips fall where they may in Iraq, with no real consequence to us, then I would be tickled to death about just throwing in the towel and abandoning the objective.

Unfortunately, Iraq is not Vietnam. Our defeat, or perception of defeat, in Iraq, will only be the beginning of the problems that lie ahead. Radical Islamic Fundamentalism will continue to spread across Europe, and will gain even more intensity in the Middle East. As nations begin to succumb to the radicalism, other nations will become vulnerable, and very shortly the dominoes will begin to fall. If radicals are able to secure nuclear weapons, we could watch in horror, as American cities vanish before our eyes.

This is more than some territorial dispute, it's more complicated than a simple difference in governmental ideology, it is a literal battle for civilization and western culture. We didn't start this war, they did, and they have no intentions of just folding up shop and going home, should we retreat from Iraq.
 
uscitizen said:
Yep, like communism spread around the world Dix, same tune different words.
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Well, see? That's the mistake you are all making. You want to think, in your undeveloped pinhead minds, that this is exactly the same as Communist expansion, and it's vastly different. Communism didn't involve a theocratic prophecy and calling, or the establishing of a religious Caliphate. Communism wasn't a movement to eradicate Western civilization and democracy, it was an alternative concept. People who believed in Communism, didn't believe they would have virgins waiting in heaven if they killed Jews and Americans, most Communists are Atheist or Agnostic.

These are two vastly different enemies, and it is a fool who sees them as the same.
 
like I said Dixie....what you know about the middle east could fit in a coffee cup, and still have room for a cup of coffee.

Given your abysmal record of prognostication, how do you dare continue?
 
Communism wasn't a movement to eradicate Western civilization and democracy//

Wrongo oh bandana brain. Communism was dedicated to the overthrow of the evil capitalistic areas of the world.
 
uscitizen said:
Communism wasn't a movement to eradicate Western civilization and democracy//

Wrongo oh bandana brain. Communism was dedicated to the overthrow of the evil capitalistic areas of the world.
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It wasn't theocratized and preached, and mandated through religious edict of their spiritual faith. It was a governmental ideology, this is a religious ideology.

HUGE DIFFERENCE!
 
so what ? Christians have been spreading their influence for thousands of years, what's the problem ? Ohhh you are not able to seperate islamic folks form terrorists, yep I see your problem. But it is not everyones problem like you think.
 
Radical Islamic Fundamentalism will continue to spread across Europe, and will gain even more intensity in the Middle East.

Please tell me in detail how this can happen.

As nations begin to succumb to the radicalism, other nations will become vulnerable, and very shortly the dominoes will begin to fall.

How will this happen? What precedent is there for the domino theory to come about.
 
The sky is falling! the sky is falling! It is raining Islamic radicals on us....

Just send em quail hunting with me, no more problems....
 
uscitizen said:
so what ? Christians have been spreading their influence for thousands of years, what's the problem ? Ohhh you are not able to seperate islamic folks form terrorists, yep I see your problem. But it is not everyones problem like you think.
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This has nothing to do with spreading influence, Christians are not calling for the destruction of Mecca and a Christian Coalition to rule the world. There is no appropriate comparisson to modern-day Christianity, and the message of radical Islam is completely contrary to the teachings of Christ.

Nowhere did I say a word about Islamic folks, we are talking about radical fascist jihadists, within the Muslim community, who have perverted Islam, and seek to kill all of those who disagree, including Islamic folk.
 
IHateGovernment said:
Radical Islamic Fundamentalism will continue to spread across Europe, and will gain even more intensity in the Middle East.

Please tell me in detail how this can happen.

As nations begin to succumb to the radicalism, other nations will become vulnerable, and very shortly the dominoes will begin to fall.

How will this happen? What precedent is there for the domino theory to come about.
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A. See Nazism and the rise of the Nazi movement.
B. See WWII, and the expansion of Nazism.

Except for this... with Nazism, it was not an engrained part of their spiritual belief system, for that precedent, we can look to the Japanese Imperialists, who fully believed in giving their life for the cause, and were almost invincible in the Pacific theater because of this. Some will say, the nuke is all that saved us, unfortunately, we don't have a secret weapon here.
 
A. See Nazism and the rise of the Nazi movement.
B. See WWII, and the expansion of Nazism.

Except for this... with Nazism, it was not an engrained part of their spiritual belief system, for that precedent, we can look to the Japanese Imperialists, who fully believed in giving their life for the cause, and were almost invincible in the Pacific theater because of this. Some will say, the nuke is all that saved us, unfortunately, we don't have a secret weapon here.

Funny I am having the same exact argument with William Lawrence right now.

You cannot compare Al Queda or the Iraqi insurgency to Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan.

First off most Germans and Japanese supported their governments and rallied behind them. Al Queda is not nearly as popular and is widely hated by Muslims. In order for them to rule it has to be through an army that subjugates the people. They don't have the numbers to do this.

For any power to really threaten the US it must come from a nation state. It is true that Al Queda can blow up buildings and lots of people but they can never subjugate us. Terrorism only works defensively. It is used against democracies to change public opinion in order to get a nation to stop attacking. Terrorism never has been and never will be a means to get a nation to surrender into living under slavery.

Al Queda also doesn't have sufficient technology or industrial or economic power to realistically threaten the US or even a sovereign nation in the middle east.
 
You cannot compare Al Queda or the Iraqi insurgency to Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan.

Perhaps not, but you asked for a precedent, and that is the most obvious one there is. I am not making a direct comparison, I happen to think radical Islamofascism is much more dangerous than Communism or Nazism, because of the spiritual nature of the beast.

You asked how this fanaticism could ever spread across Europe, and I told you... just like Nazism did.... just like Imperialism in Japan... Communism in the Soviet Bloc... etc. If it's not confronted and defeated, it will spread. The underlying difference, again, is the spiritual nature of Islamofascism, and the determined nature of an ideology bound by religious convictions.
 
But Islamofascists lack the means. They were not advanced nation states with sophisticated arms development and hordes of loyal followers to fight for their cause.
 
Dixie said:
A. See Nazism and the rise of the Nazi movement.
B. See WWII, and the expansion of Nazism.

Except for this... with Nazism, it was not an engrained part of their spiritual belief system, for that precedent, we can look to the Japanese Imperialists, who fully believed in giving their life for the cause, and were almost invincible in the Pacific theater because of this. Some will say, the nuke is all that saved us, unfortunately, we don't have a secret weapon here.
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Wow! To be such an expert you don't have much of a clue about WW2 either. Japan was defeated, the bombs just saved many lives by bypassing the invasion of japan.
 
Nowhere did I say a word about Islamic folks, we are talking about radical fascist jihadists, within the Muslim community, who have perverted Islam, and seek to kill all of those who disagree, including Islamic folk.
//

yes and those are in the minority. they will not overrun the rest of the world.
Why do you have so much fear ?
 
Dixie said:
I would be overjoyed, if we could handle Iraq in the same manner as we handled Vietnam. If it was simply a matter of withdrawing our troops and enduring the shame of defeat for a few decades, I could live with that. If we could simply pull our troops out and let the chips fall where they may in Iraq, with no real consequence to us, then I would be tickled to death about just throwing in the towel and abandoning the objective.

Unfortunately, Iraq is not Vietnam. Our defeat, or perception of defeat, in Iraq, will only be the beginning of the problems that lie ahead. Radical Islamic Fundamentalism will continue to spread across Europe, and will gain even more intensity in the Middle East. As nations begin to succumb to the radicalism, other nations will become vulnerable, and very shortly the dominoes will begin to fall. If radicals are able to secure nuclear weapons, we could watch in horror, as American cities vanish before our eyes.

This is more than some territorial dispute, it's more complicated than a simple difference in governmental ideology, it is a literal battle for civilization and western culture. We didn't start this war, they did, and they have no intentions of just folding up shop and going home, should we retreat from Iraq.
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Your war in iraq is making things worse. There's no doubt about it.

You and Bush are doing exactly what Al Qaeda wanted you to do. Invade and occupy an arab country, get us stuck in a quagmire, and let OBL bleed us like a stuck pig.

Are you sure you and Bush aren't Al Qaeda "moles" who are trying to do harm to america?
 
That is the way it has worked out cypress.
bush could not have helped the "isloamofascists" any more if he had been on their payroll.
 
Dixie's wighat's wrapped too tight. It has cut off the life-giving flow of blood to the brain. He'll soon succumb to coma. And the next time we hear of him he will be fighting to prevent his tube from being removed. He really should do something about that wighat. Or in the words of Bob Dylan, "I sure wish he'd take that off his head."
 
Regardless of the fact of whether or not you think Iraq was a wise move, we are there now, engaged in a battle the Islamofascists describe as the central front of the war, so we have to make prudent decisions about future direction. It's simply not enough, to continue to yammer about why we shouldn't have done it, we have already done it. There is no way to turn back the hands of time, and not go into Iraq, if we could do that, and voting for Democrats would make that happen, I would probably vote Democrat! The facts of life are, we are in Iraq now, fighting a war with radical Islamic Fundamentalists who will be strengthened by us leaving and quiting the war now. This is not a viable option, regardless of who is in power, becuase the end result will be far more American casualties down the road. We have to prevail here, regardless of how invested in defeat the Democrats are, we simply can't afford to lose this one, like we did in Vietnam.
 
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