Hydrogen News Thread

Into the Night said:
Hydrogen manufacture is mostly done by cracking it from a carbon based fuel (often natural gas), leaving CO2 as a waste product. You know...that magick gas that is blamed for somehow warming the Earth.
To manufacture hydrogen by using electrolysis will require more electricity than charging an EV will use. Both types of cars are extremely wasteful of energy.
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We know, why do think we don't??
 
serendipity said:
Honda to start producing new hydrogen fuel cell system co-developed with GM

TOKYO, Feb 2 (Reuters) - Japan's Honda Motor Co (7267.T) said it will start producing a new hydrogen fuel cell system jointly developed with General Motors Co (GM.N) this year and gradually step up sales this decade, in a bid to expand its hydrogen business.

Honda will target annual sales of around 2,000 units of the new system in the middle of this decade, the company said on Thursday, aiming to boost that to 60,000 units per year in 2030

The Japanese carmaker is seeking to expand the use of its new system not only for its own fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs), but also commercial vehicles such as heavy trucks, as stationary power stations and in construction machinery.

Honda will start production of the hydrogen fuel cell system through its joint venture with GM this year, Honda senior managing executive director Shinji Aoyama told reporters during a company event in Tokyo.

https://www.reuters.com/business/au...-cell-system-co-developed-with-gm-2023-02-02/
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Global EV Sales for 2022

By Roland Irle, EV-Volumes
Global EV sales continued strong. A total of 10,5 million new BEVs and PHEVs were delivered during 2022, an increase of +55 % compared to 2021. The regional growth pattern is shifting, though. Following 2 years of steep sales increases in Europe, EVs gained only +15 % over 2021 there. Weak overall vehicle markets and persistent component shortages have taken their toll, exacerbated by the war in Ukraine. EV sales in USA and Canada increased by 48 % year-on-year, despite a weak overall light vehicle market which plunged by 8 % during 2022 y/y. The 2nd half of 2022 saw a cautious recovery of auto markets as numbers compared to the low results of 2021 H2. Global light vehicle sales for 2022, 81 million units, were still -0,5 % lower than in 2021 and -15 % below pre-2020 levels.

China NEV sales defied all headwinds the country faced otherwise (real estate crisis, Covid outbreaks and lock-downs) and increased by another +82 % year-on-year. BYD more than tripled sales to 1,85 million units, making it the #1 in the global sales ranking, if their 944 500 PHEV sales are included. Counting BEVs only, Tesla still leads by a wide margin with 1,31 million units delivered in 2022.

PHEVs stood for 27 % of global Plug-in sales in 2022 compared to 29 % in 2021. While their sales volumes still increased, their share in the PEV mix is in decline, facing headwinds from incentive cuts and improving BEV offers. Sales growth is increasingly depending on the degree of electrification. While BEVs grew by +59 % and PHEVs by +46 %, non-chargeable Full Hybrids grew by +15 % and Mild Hybrids by +1 % y-o-y. Global sales of vehicles which can be charged from the grid (10,5 m) were higher than for non-chargeable vehicles (8,4 m) for the first time in 2022. ICE-only vehicle sales declined by -7 %; their share in global light vehicle sales is 76,8 %, compared to 82,2 % in 2021. FCEV remain irrelevant for the electrification of light vehicles; their deliveries stagnated at 15 400 units in 2022, which is 0,02 % of the global, annual light vehicle volume.

Rapid EV adoption in weak auto markets has boosted EV shares further. BEVs (9,5 %) and PHEVs (3,5 %) stood for 13 % of global light vehicle sales in 2022, compared to 8,3 % in 2021. Norway had the highest market share of EVs (BEV 71 % + PHEV 8 %), China had 27 %, Europe 20,8 % and USA 7,2 %. The fastest growing markets were Indonesia (from 1k to 10k), India with +223 % to 50k, nearly all BEVs, New Zealand +151 % to 23k for 20 % market share. EV supply and adoption is now spreading rapidly into the global south.

November and December of 2022 saw demand distortions by coming reductions of EV grants in Europe and China and the IRA in the US for 2023. Demand for EVs and ICEs alike were pulled into 2022 or pushed into 2023. We expect irregular EV sales and shares in several countries for Q1 of 2023. For the full year of 2023, we expect sales of 14,3 million EVs, a growth of 36 % over 2022, with BEVs reaching 11 million units and PHEVs 3,3 million units. By the end of 2023 we expect nearly 40 million EVs in operation, counting light vehicles, 73 % are BEVs and 27 % PHEVs.

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serendipity said:
Toyota is all in on HEFC cars.
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While they do manufacture hydrogen cars, they are not 'all in' on them. They also manufacture gasoline and diesel cars as well as EVs. They are getting out the EV line.
None of that has anything to do with the supply of hydrogen or the problems associated with fueling these cars. Strawman fallacy.
 
serendipity said:
Yeh we know all that, but green hydrogen is getting cheaper and cheaper.
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Hydrogen is a colorless gas. I assume you mean hydrogen produced by electroysis, as described in your link.
serendipity said:
Green Hydrogen Is Cheaper Than LNG in Europe
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Now THERE's an easy bar to reach! Don't try limbo dancing. You'd never succeed at it!
serendipity said:
Gas prices will fall eventually, but the European energy crisis has permanently improved prospects for the clean-burning fuel
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By 'gas' I assume you mean natural gas. The European energy crisis is mostly Europe's own fault. Trump warned you...you didn't listen. And now, here you are.
serendipity said:
https://hydrogen-central.com/green-hydrogen-cheaper-natural-gas-europe-boosts-investment/
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Unfortunately, part of the European energy crisis is the inability to produce sufficient electricity. That will affect your ability to manufacture hydrogen by electrolysis. That takes more energy than just charging a fleet of EVs.

Hydrogen cars still have the long time it takes to refuel them as well (often some 30 minutes per fillup). The nozzle freezes to the car during fueling, you see. It takes that long for it to thaw in 70 deg weather. That will be a much bigger problem in colder Europe, particularly in northern nations or mountainous country.

The fuel cells in hydrogen cars also require palladium and rhodium to manufacture, two rare and very expensive materials. They don't come up power rapidly either, meaning you must use a fairly large battery pack (such as a Li-ion pack) to ballast electrical loads and provide the needed acceleration.
Once up to power, they will be fine. That power can also recharge the Li-ion pack. You can even cruise down the Autobahn with 'em.

Now, since you are so sold on hydrogen cars and so-called 'green' hydrogen, why are you so afraid of CO2? Do you think this gas somehow magickally warms the Earth or something?
 
moon said:
A corporate terrorist has spoken, with little idea of what constitutes ' the Arctic ' himself .
Tell me again, maggot.


Haw, haw..................................haw.
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You consider yourself a 'corporate terrorist'? What is that, exactly?
 
serendipity said:
The Hindenburg tragedy was caused by a build-up of static electricity, not that I'd expect you to know that.
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Like any disaster of this magnitude, several causes came together to line up. There is no single cause.

Static electricity in the air was one factor. As the ship was landing, that static electricity somehow jumped the gap to ground by going through the balloon rather than the grounding cable (which had not yet touched the ground). The discharge probably went through the balloon to the landing tower.
Another was that the bag was built as a frame balloon, and protected using butyrate dope (very flammable) mixed with aluminum powder (very good protection again UV, but extremely flammable), then filled with hydrogen.
The actual point of ignition is unknown. One theory (supported by video of the event) was that the ship crashed into the tower (not particularly fast, but enough to damage the balloon envelope). As the ship was not yet grounded, the discharge probably went through the hydrogen gas setting it off. There is no proof of this, however. It is simply one of several theories. It has good supporting evidence though.

When the balloon burst open from the burning hydrogen, most of that fire went up, along with the hydrogen. It did, however, set the fabric treated with butyrate dope and aluminum coating on fire. That was most of the fire as the ship crashed to the ground (killing everyone beneath it, including those in the gondola).

The spectacular nature of the fire put people off from traveling by Zeppelin, despite it's sedate and elegant nature of travel. The airplane became the norm of travel by air as aircraft advanced to the point of providing airline use due to it's higher speed and freedom from these types of hazards. After that, it was all over for the Zeppelin.
Blimps are still used, of course, but they are usually filled with helium now (it wasn't practically available during the days of the Zeppelin), a much more expensive gas but it at least is not flammable. It does have a much bigger problem with leakage from the envelope, however. Such blimps are used for advertising mostly. Landing these smaller craft still requires a significant crew, but the landing procedure is less cumbersome.

A bag (as we pilots tend to call them) are slow in the airport pattern, so they have their own approach path separate from airplanes. They sometimes use helicopter approach paths but often they have their own specific path they follow (for airports that base these things).

The balloon that was used for the Chinese spy balloon was probably filled with helium instead of hydrogen. Hitting a hydrogen balloon with a missile would've been more spectacular.

Some pyro types will fill a small balloon (or weather balloon) with hydrogen, tie a string to it, light the string, and release the balloon. It makes a nice fireball flash in the sky and a bit of a popping sound when it goes. Some attach a small salute to the base of the balloon so the pop is louder.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Denmark is East. The Netherlands is East. Sweden is Northeast.
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Most of the Shetlands are even north of Stockholm, i.e. above 60 degrees north.

You might, just, get away with ' Sweden is north-east of London '- but southern Sweden is east of a large part of the UK.

Just accept it- otherwise you'll be standing in the corner with Into the Night Soil.


Haw, haw............................haw.

You are wrong.
 
If we say that Sweden extends northwards from approximately 55 degrees north it's plain to see that some of England and all of Scotland are north of that latitude.

You are wrong. No biggie. You shouldn't have gotten involved, eh.

Next time, let Into The Night Soil be a dumbass on his own.
 
moon said:
I have no problem locating Sweden, dumbass. It's east of the UK- a fact that you deny


Haw, haw..............................haw.


Your brain is upside-down.
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It is not east of the UK. It is NE of the UK. Guess you still don't know where Sweden is! You still think you travel east to get to the arctic!
 
moon said:
Most of the Shetlands are even north of Stockholm, i.e. above 60 degrees north.

You might, just, get away with ' Sweden is north-east of London '- but southern Sweden is east of a large part of the UK.

Just accept it- otherwise you'll be standing in the corner with Into the Night Soil.


Haw, haw............................haw.

You are wrong.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Doubling down on your geographic illiteracy again!
 
Into the Night said:
Hydrogen is a colorless gas. I assume you mean hydrogen produced by electroysis, as described in your link.

Now THERE's an easy bar to reach! Don't try limbo dancing. You'd never succeed at it!

By 'gas' I assume you mean natural gas. The European energy crisis is mostly Europe's own fault. Trump warned you...you didn't listen. And now, here you are.

Unfortunately, part of the European energy crisis is the inability to produce sufficient electricity. That will affect your ability to manufacture hydrogen by electrolysis. That takes more energy than just charging a fleet of EVs.

Hydrogen cars still have the long time it takes to refuel them as well (often some 30 minutes per fillup). The nozzle freezes to the car during fueling, you see. It takes that long for it to thaw in 70 deg weather. That will be a much bigger problem in colder Europe, particularly in northern nations or mountainous country.

The fuel cells in hydrogen cars also require palladium and rhodium to manufacture, two rare and very expensive materials. They don't come up power rapidly either, meaning you must use a fairly large battery pack (such as a Li-ion pack) to ballast electrical loads and provide the needed acceleration.
Once up to power, they will be fine. That power can also recharge the Li-ion pack. You can even cruise down the Autobahn with 'em.

Now, since you are so sold on hydrogen cars and so-called 'green' hydrogen, why are you so afraid of CO2? Do you think this gas somehow magickally warms the Earth or something?
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Nozzle freezing is easily solvable, mountains and molehills spring to mind.

https://www.weh.com/general-news/pr...ezing-when-refueling-with-pre-cooled-hydrogen
 
Into the Night said:
It is not east of the UK. It is NE of the UK. Guess you still don't know where Sweden is! You still think you travel east to get to the arctic!
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In your upside-down brain you think that you can bend lines of latitude.

Haw, haw............................................haw.
 
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