How You Can Pull a GE on Taxes

christiefan915

Catalyst
Here's something for all you people who are mad at me about the GE article. Don't say I never did anything nice for you. :awesome:

There's been a firestorm this week over the news that General Electric will pay no tax—at least, no federal corporate income tax—on last year's profits.

But if you're like a lot of people, your first reaction was probably: "Hmmm. How can I get that kind of deal?"

If General Electric pays close to zero in Federal Income taxes, can you? Brett Arends tells Kelsey Hubbard how even a "regular Joe" can lower their tax bill, especially if they are self-employed.

You'd be surprised. You might. And without being either a pauper or a major corporation.

I spoke to Gil Charney, principal tax researcher at H&R Block's Tax Institute, to see how a regular Joe could pull a GE. The verdict: It's more feasible than you think—especially if you're self-employed.


Let's say you set up business as a consultant or a contractor, something a lot of people have been doing these days. And, to make this a challenge on the tax front, let's say you do well and take in about $150,000 in your first year.

First off, says Mr. Charney, for 2010 you can write off up to $10,000 in start-up expenses. (In subsequent years it's only $5,000.)

Okay, let's say you claim $7,000. That takes your income down to $143,000.

You can also write off all legitimate business expenses. Mr. Charney emphasizes that this only applies to legitimate expenses.

He didn't say, but everyone seems to understand, that this can be quite a flexible term. Even if you buy a computer, a cellphone and a car primarily for business use, you can use them for personal purposes as well. If you happen to take a business trip to Florida in, say, January, no one is going to stop you from enjoying the sunshine or taking a dip in the pool.

So let's say you manage to write off another $10,000 a year in business expenses.

That brings your income, for tax purposes, down to $133,000.

You'll have to pay Medicare and Social Security taxes (just like GE). Because you're self-employed, you have to pay both sides: the employee and the employer. That will come to about $19,000.

However, you can deduct half of that, or $9,500, from your taxable income. So that brings your total down to $123,500 so far.

Now comes the creative bit. The self-employed have access to terrific tax breaks on their investment and retirement accounts. The best deal for many is going to be a self-employed 401(k), sometimes known as a Solo 401(k).

This will let you save $43,100 and write it off against your taxes. That money goes straight into a sheltered investment account, as with a regular 401(k).

Why $43,100? That's because with a Solo 401(k), you're both the employer and the employee. As the employee you get to contribute a maximum of $16,500, as with any regular 401(k). But as the employer you also get to lavish yourself with an incredibly generous company match of up to 20% of net income.

Yes, being the boss has its privileges. (And if you're 50 or over, your limit as an employee is raised from $16,500 each to $22,000.)

You can save another $10,000 by also contributing to individual retirement accounts—$5,000 for you, $5,000 for your spouse. If you use a traditional IRA, rather than a Roth, that reduces your taxable income as well. If you're 50 or over, the limit rises to $6,000 apiece.

If you contribute $43,100 to your Solo 401(k), and $10,000 to two IRAs, that brings your income for tax purposes down to just over $70,000.

We haven't stopped there either, says Mr. Charney.

Now come the usual itemized deductions. You can write off your state and local taxes. Let's say these come to $10,000.

You can write off interest on your mortgage. Call that another $10,000. That's enough to pay 5% interest on a $200,000 home loan.

That gets us down to about $50,000 And we're not done.

If you're self-employed, health insurance is probably a big headache. But the news isn't all bad. You can write off the premiums for yourself, your spouse, and your kids.

And if you use a qualifying high-deductible health insurance plan—there are a variety of rules to make sure a plan qualifies—you get another break. You can contribute $3,050 a year into a tax-sheltered Health Savings Account, or $6,150 for a family. You can write those contributions off against your taxable income. The investments grow sheltered from tax. And if you spend the money on qualifying health costs, the withdrawals are tax-free as well.

So call this $10,000 for the premiums and $6,150 for the HSA contributions. That gets your income, for tax purposes, all the way down to about $34,000.

If you have outstanding student loans, you can write off $2,500 in interest. And you can write off $4,000 of your kid's college tuition and fees.

Then there's a personal exemption: $3,650 per person. If you're married with one child, that's $10,950.

Taxable income: just under $17,000. That's on a gross take of $150,000. You'd owe less than $1,700 in federal income tax.

And it doesn't stop there. Because now you can bring in some of the tax credits. Unlike deductions, these come off your tax liability, dollar for dollar.

GE got big write-offs related to green energy. There are some for you too, although on a small scale. You can claim credits for things like installing solar panels, heat pumps or energy-efficient windows or boilers in your home. Let's say you use a home equity loan to pay for the improvements and take the maximum $1,500 write-off.

That gets your tax liability down to $200.

Can we get rid of that? Sure, says Mr. Charney.

If your spouse spends, say, $1,000 on qualifying adult-education courses or training programs, you can claim $200, or 20% of the cost, in Lifetime Learning Credits. (The maximum is $2,000.)

That wipes out the remaining liability.

Congratulations. You've pulled a GE. You owe no federal income taxes at all.

OK, it's just an illustration. Few will be quite so fortunate. On the other hand, it's not comprehensive either. There are plenty of other deductions and credits we didn't mention. You could have written off up to $3,000 by selling loss-making investments. Your spouse may be able to use a 401(k) deduction as well. There are lots of ways to tweak the numbers.

In this case, you've paid no federal income tax, and meanwhile you've saved $19,000 toward your retirement through Social Security and Medicare, and $53,000 through your 401(k) and IRAs. You've paid most of your accommodation costs (that is, the interest and property taxes on your home), covered your health-care costs and quite a lot of personal expenses through your business account, paid $4,000 toward your child's college costs and had about $2,000 a month left over for cash costs.

Who says GE has all the fun?


Write to Brett Arends at brett.arends@wsj.com
 
Nice post.....you've earned some points for a civil post and no hackish partisanship on a subject important to everyone, liberal/conservative, right and left....

And now you can see the kind of argument used by those of us that want to see the IRS abolished, the present tax code burned, and a new FLAT tax with no deductions instituted.....
Most Americans don't have the education to even understand or fill out their own taxes and most so called experts answers don't agree with one another when they are asked identical questions....

Reagan preached for a flat tax in the eighties and here we are, 30 some years later with more regulations than we had then....
 
Nice post.....you've earned some points for a civil post and no hackish partisanship on a subject important to everyone, liberal/conservative, right and left....

And now you can see the kind of argument used by those of us that want to see the IRS abolished, the present tax code burned, and a new FLAT tax with no deductions instituted.....
Most Americans don't have the education to even understand or fill out their own taxes and most so called experts answers don't agree with one another when they are asked identical questions....

Reagan preached for a flat tax in the eighties and here we are, 30 some years later with more regulations than we had then....

Who's going to administer the flat tax system when the IRS is abolished?
 
A flat tax would be better than what we have now, but the Fair Tax would be better.
 
A flat tax would be better than what we have now, but the Fair Tax would be better.

Agreed. I like both ideas, and either is better than what we currently have, but I really really really really like the Fair Tax idea best. The best thing about it would be, NO corporate taxes. Right now, other countries around the world are beating our brains out in attracting new business, because they have low corporate tax rates, and ours are among the highest in the world. If we were to do away with corporate taxation, the influx of new business would be so great, and create so many new jobs, we might actually HAVE to give amnesty to illegals to fill the positions, hell, we might have to bus in some more!

Oh, but this idea makes liberals bleed from the eyes... they couldn't stand what they would perceive as turning loose of the testicles of Big Business! There is too much power in play! Liberals, being inherently stupid and clueless about business, fail to understand corporations never pay taxes. The cost of taxation, like every other associated cost of doing business, is figured in to the price of the product or service provided by the corporation. Raise taxes, raise the price! The CEO isn't obliged to pay the increase out of his vacation fund, no big wigs are going to take a pay cut, the company will still make just as much profit as before, the product or service just costs the consumer more. The more you raise taxes on corporations, the more you drive jobs overseas, and the higher you drive consumer prices.
 
Originally Posted by bravo
Nice post.....you've earned some points for a civil post and no hackish partisanship on a subject important to everyone, liberal/conservative, right and left....

And now you can see the kind of argument used by those of us that want to see the IRS abolished, the present tax code burned, and a new FLAT tax with no deductions instituted.....
Most Americans don't have the education to even understand or fill out their own taxes and most so called experts answers don't agree with one another when they are asked identical questions....

Reagan preached for a flat tax in the eighties and here we are, 30 some years later with more regulations than we had then....


Who's going to administer the flat tax system when the IRS is abolished?

Excellent point! This insane notion that all 50 states can co-exist without some type of central governing on various levels is just that...insane. Mind you, if Congress were to OFFICIALLY vote on ratification of an IRS, then the people could have more direct affect on how that system works by th epower of the vote.....assuming the majority of Americans get off their butts and vote.
 
Excellent point! This insane notion that all 50 states can co-exist without some type of central governing on various levels is just that...insane. Mind you, if Congress were to OFFICIALLY vote on ratification of an IRS, then the people could have more direct affect on how that system works by th epower of the vote.....assuming the majority of Americans get off their butts and vote.

Wonder why bravo didn't reply? I guess he doesn't realize if the IRS was eliminated, some type of IRS v.2 would have to be created.
 
Wonder why bravo didn't reply? I guess he doesn't realize if the IRS was eliminated, some type of IRS v.2 would have to be created.
Why? Because its a stupid question.....

of course someone would oversee the process.....business itself would administer the major portion by collecting some percentage of employees wages and send it to Washington just as they do now....nothing else would be required for these employees at all, no filing, no refund, no nothing. Even interest could be ignored until its actually taken ....
details, details, details....I don't claim to be a CPA and I'm not gonna write the legislation....

Naturally, some auditors would be required to oversee independent contractors and the self employed ... to police them so to speak....no matter....I don't think it would require the monstrosity called the IRS we have now...and the thousands of un-understandable regulations we now have.....
and best of all, I hope.....no more forced social engineering through taxation.....
 
The Legalized Theft of Tax Payer Dollars by General Electric

MARK KARLIN, AT TRUTHOUT

General Electric (GE) wanted me to know that the corporation is not a tax-dodger - and allegedly was maligned by a New York Times (NYT) article entitled, "G.E.'s Strategies Let It Avoid Taxes Altogether."

So, GE paid for a Google email teaser, which I clicked through to a slick public relations web page that claimed the NYT article was "distorting and misleading."

Except as far as I can see, nothing on the GE "crisis management" explanation page refuted the basic NYT fact that the firm "reported worldwide profits of $14.2 billion, and said $5.1 billion of the total came from its operations in the United States. Its American tax bill? None. In fact, GE claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion."

GE asserts, as its first point of defense, that it "pays what it owes under the law and is scrupulous about its compliance with tax obligations in all jurisdictions."

Technically, it is possible that statement is true, but specious, because GE gets legislation passed that allows it to legally avoid paying its fair share for the maintenance of democracy.

According to the NYT, "A review of company filings and congressional records shows that one of the most striking advantages of General Electric is its ability to lobby for, win and take advantage of tax breaks."

That's what financial journalist David Cay Johnston describes in his book, "Perfectly Legal: The Covert Campaign to Rig Our Tax System to Benefit the Super Rich - and Cheat Everybody Else."

Just call what GE does "legalized theft."

GE-Tax-Loopholes.jpg


Pay-No-Taxes.jpg
 
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Excellent point! This insane notion that all 50 states can co-exist without some type of central governing on various levels is just that...insane. Mind you, if Congress were to OFFICIALLY vote on ratification of an IRS, then the people could have more direct affect on how that system works by th epower of the vote.....assuming the majority of Americans get off their butts and vote.

Wonder why bravo didn't reply? I guess he doesn't realize if the IRS was eliminated, some type of IRS v.2 would have to be created.

He'd probably propose some convoluted BS that has private industry literally recreating the Federal gov't and IRS relationship....it's what all these anti-gov't dunderheads do...reinvent the wheel, and then naively believe that the very corporations and private businesses that brought us the current fiscal nightmare are going to do right by them. Fucking neocon/teabagging/birther/oather/Libertarian fools!
 
Gee....if you had a few functioning neurons you'd have noticed I already answered Christiefans post, and you could have saved yourself the trouble of posting and saving us the nausea you cause us in reading your bullshit....heres your list for later posts ...Clarabell. Don't lose it.:fu:
Intellectual pygmies
chronology of the posts
cowardly neocon clowns
political gasbags
forementioned buffoons
intellectually impotent coward
intellectually cowardly
willfully ignorant
Sore loser Republicans
conservative pundits
oathers
birthers
tea partiers
neocon toadies
 
Gee....if you had a few functioning neurons you'd have noticed I already answered Christiefans post, and you could have saved yourself the trouble of posting and saving us the nausea you cause us in reading your bullshit....heres your list for later posts ...Clarabell. Don't lose it.:fu:
Intellectual pygmies
chronology of the posts
cowardly neocon clowns
political gasbags
forementioned buffoons
intellectually impotent coward
intellectually cowardly
willfully ignorant
Sore loser Republicans
conservative pundits
oathers
birthers
tea partiers
neocon toadies

You could have saved us the nausea caused by reading your lame rejoinders by using the IA function.
 
Jeez this thread is full of bullshit.

Why are you people attacking GE? Would you expect them to pay when they have managed to find loopholes and deductions to avoid it? There is not a business out there that pays more than it owes.

And I love the article calling it "legal theft". WTF? Can you get more dramatic with the bullshit? This is no more "theft" than you accepting the free samples handed out at the grocery stores. You didn't pay for that food. GE did what it could to reduce its taxes. Duh. Is that a shock?

And yet no one has done the slightest bit of research to find out the names of the elected officials who GAVE them this gift of tax deductions and loopholes. You are angry at the wrong people.
 
Jeez this thread is full of bullshit.

Why are you people attacking GE? Would you expect them to pay when they have managed to find loopholes and deductions to avoid it? There is not a business out there that pays more than it owes.

And I love the article calling it "legal theft". WTF? Can you get more dramatic with the bullshit? This is no more "theft" than you accepting the free samples handed out at the grocery stores. You didn't pay for that food. GE did what it could to reduce its taxes. Duh. Is that a shock?

And yet no one has done the slightest bit of research to find out the names of the elected officials who GAVE them this gift of tax deductions and loopholes. You are angry at the wrong people.

Full of bullshit, really?

From the article: "There's been a firestorm this week over the news that General Electric will pay no tax—at least, no federal corporate income tax—on last year's profits."

Note the word "firestorm". This has been a hot topic and a current event for the past week. Why shouldn't we talk about it?

Nobody likes to think they're getting screwed over re: taxes while billion-dollar corporations get away scot-free, and that's the perception. We've read posts from both sides on the issue. We now understand that as far as anybody outside the IRS knows, what GE did was legal. It doesn't mean that something wasn't done within the legal definition that's questionable, i.e. bloating deductions.

Feel free to defend or criticize GE as you see fit. It doesn't make the topic "bullshit."
 
There is no need to defend GE at all. They did nothing wrong. People got pissed off. Nothing new there. Some news media outlets made the giant corporation look like they are evil and are stealing. Nothing new there.

The biggest thing no one seems to notice is that GE did nothing wrong. In fact, it is a good thing.

When we tax corporations and businesses, we tax the people again. Businesses consider taxes a cost of doing business and will adjust their prices to maintain the same profit margin. No corporation paid taxes last year. We (the consumer) paid all the taxes charged to them.


As for the "firestorm" and that being a justification for it being a topic, then why not just discuss Molly Cyrus? She has certainly been a firestorm in the media as well.
 
Back
Top