How does it feel to now be a taxpayer?

Damocles said:
If this simply covered the "uninsured" and we paid it more directly I would agree. Instead they took direct action to make my insurance suck with huge deductibles, etc at the same time they took away HSAs...

All these waivers are reminiscent of the waivers granted to get around directive 10-289 in Atlas Shrugged. They seem to go to those who support the Pres. (Unions) while punish those who don't have "pull"...
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Who took away HSAs?
 
Damocles said:
I can't help it when reality brings memories back. Maybe I shouldn't speak of ideas.. is it too much for most to talk about ideas rather than events or people on a board like this?
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Sorry; couldn't stand Atlas Shrugged. I wanted to like it - but I couldn't stand it.

Carry on. Ideas are fine.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
The increases we see now are desperate insurance companies realizing their gravy train is pulling into the station and getting the last few gouges in on the American people before Obamacare reigns them in.
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Whereas I agree for the most part, I have to credit them w/needing revenue to cover kids up until they're 26.

Of course, CEO pay isn't going down. Neither are share prices.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
There isn't another advanced economy in the world that doesn't have some form of universal healthcare apart from the US.
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Maybe that's because they don't have Supreme Courts who rule on their Commerce Clauses and keep them from doing this sort of thing and not calling it a tax? For whatever reason, they have this and we don't, and we can't have it under the CC, so sayeth the court. So it's got to be paid for as part of our tax liability, and if people are hunky-dory with that, we shouldn't have any problem!

Now we had a perfectly acceptable system in place to handle the needs of the poor, in state-operated health clinics. These were established years ago, to provide health care to those who were poor and couldn't afford it otherwise. Medicaid was also established, to help cover hospital costs of the poor. So, in a sense, we DID have universal health care.. it was available to everyone who qualified. And I would venture to say, the typical county or state health clinic, is up to par with ANY facility operated in one of your socialist Eurotrash examples.

What we have now, is universal INSURANCE coverage for health care! And it's MANDATED that we own this, by our government, as a condition of taxation for being Americans. When the premiums go through the roof, the people will scream in outrage... and guess what the federal government has been limited (by SCOTUS ruling) in its power to regulate because it's not an 'interstate commerce?' ...Ouch!
 
General Buck Turgidson said:
Great minds . . .

Can you come up with something that isn't gag-inducing? I mean, Atlas Shrugged references are OK for teenagers trying to discover themselves and their place in the world but not from a grown ass man.
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Did you just drag down Onceler by claiming his ideas? LOL.. Man, I could reference more of it now, but I won't. I was simply remembering something about the book that seems reflected in reality now.. It's okay. Take a deep breath. You'll be okay, there's no need to feel a nauseating fear when people talk about things like that.
 
Damocles said:
Did you just drag down Onceler by claiming his ideas? LOL.. Man, I could reference more of it now, but I won't. I was simply remembering something about the book that seems reflected in reality now.. It's okay. Take a deep breath. You'll be okay, there's no need to feel a nauseating fear when people talk about things like that.
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That's a whip-smart post right there.
 
Damocles said:
Which doesn't make this particular law "good"... Simply stating something like that doesn't mean that this law itself was the right answer. Everybody agrees that we need some better solution than status quo, what they disagree with is the belief that this is the right answer.

The problem that I most have with this is that we squandered an opportunity to come up with the best solution and simply offered a mandate to some of the worst insurance I have seen. I have never had a deductible plan like that, even when I worked for a frickin' convenience store I had better insurance than what they are forcing everybody to buy.
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Well hopefully if Obama gets back the next step would be a public option as well. Anyway whose fault is that the original bill was torn to shreds?
 
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Dixie said:
Maybe that's because they don't have Supreme Courts who rule on their Commerce Clauses and keep them from doing this sort of thing and not calling it a tax? For whatever reason, they have this and we don't, and we can't have it under the CC, so sayeth the court. So it's got to be paid for as part of our tax liability, and if people are hunky-dory with that, we shouldn't have any problem!

Now we had a perfectly acceptable system in place to handle the needs of the poor, in state-operated health clinics. These were established years ago, to provide health care to those who were poor and couldn't afford it otherwise. Medicaid was also established, to help cover hospital costs of the poor. So, in a sense, we DID have universal health care.. it was available to everyone who qualified. And I would venture to say, the typical county or state health clinic, is up to par with ANY facility operated in one of your socialist Eurotrash examples.

What we have now, is universal INSURANCE coverage for health care! And it's MANDATED that we own this, by our government, as a condition of taxation for being Americans. When the premiums go through the roof, the people will scream in outrage... and guess what the federal government has been limited (by SCOTUS ruling) in its power to regulate because it's not an 'interstate commerce?' ...Ouch!
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Why do you care anyway, aren't you supposed to be a millionaire from discovering some kind of super film emulsion?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
which should have been eliminated BEFORE discussing health care......
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The government's made tremendous strides to help wipe out Medicare fraud. Unfortunately, under the Bush regime, they couldn't get a conviction for Rick Scott too.

PostmodernProphet said:
no, you will be paying taxes to cover the cost of insuring those who can't afford purchase health care insurance.....
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Not unless he's rich.

Onceler said:
Don't we basically do that now for most of the uninsured?
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Yes. In the form of higher hospital district taxes and higher hospital bills.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
no, you will be paying taxes to cover the cost of insuring those who can't afford purchase health care insurance.....
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Nope, I dont see how? Under what tax? Congress will have to raise my taxes before that could happen.

You have not read or have misunderstood what the S. Ct. said. Or you are simply intentionally misrepresenting it. The tax they are talking about is the one you would have to pay IF you dont buy health insurnace.
 
BTW, Ive always thought it felt good being a tax payer. Like small percent of what I imagine it would feel to serve in the military.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
which should have been eliminated BEFORE discussing health care......
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PostmodernProphet said:
no, you will be paying taxes to cover the cost of insuring those who can't afford purchase health care insurance.....
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Onceler said:
Don't we basically do that now for most of the uninsured?
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Dixie said:
Maybe that's because they don't have Supreme Courts who rule on their Commerce Clauses and keep them from doing this sort of thing and not calling it a tax? For whatever reason, they have this and we don't, and we can't have it under the CC, so sayeth the court. So it's got to be paid for as part of our tax liability, and if people are hunky-dory with that, we shouldn't have any problem!

Now we had a perfectly acceptable system in place to handle the needs of the poor, in state-operated health clinics. These were established years ago, to provide health care to those who were poor and couldn't afford it otherwise. Medicaid was also established, to help cover hospital costs of the poor. So, in a sense, we DID have universal health care.. it was available to everyone who qualified. And I would venture to say, the typical county or state health clinic, is up to par with ANY facility operated in one of your socialist Eurotrash examples.

What we have now, is universal INSURANCE coverage for health care! And it's MANDATED that we own this, by our government, as a condition of taxation for being Americans. When the premiums go through the roof, the people will scream in outrage... and guess what the federal government has been limited (by SCOTUS ruling) in its power to regulate because it's not an 'interstate commerce?' ...Ouch!
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Someone wanna tell Dicksee to start reading my posts in order to get rid of all these wasted words? :)
 
Damocles said:
I thought it did... Well. I've been going on wrong information then. I'll have to revisit.
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The short answer is that the only direct impacts the law has on HSA are (1) no use of HSA for over the counter medicines and (2) increased penalties for early withdrawals for ineligible medical expenses. However, there are some indirect impacts and it's unclear how they will shake out:

http://www.ifebp.org/inforequest/0160537.pdf
 
General Buck Turgidson said:
The short answer is that the only direct impacts the law has on HSA are (1) no use of HSA for over the counter medicines and (2) increased penalties for early withdrawals for ineligible medical expenses. However, there are some indirect impacts and it's unclear how they will shake out:

http://www.ifebp.org/inforequest/0160537.pdf
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Hmmm... How many people will start seeing their doctors for over the counter medication prescriptions?
 
Jughead said:
Nope, I dont see how? Under what tax? Congress will have to raise my taxes before that could happen.

You have not read or have misunderstood what the S. Ct. said. Or you are simply intentionally misrepresenting it. The tax they are talking about is the one you would have to pay IF you dont buy health insurnace.
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You've got 40 million who don't have insurance, who is going to pay for them? The Supreme Court was clear on it yesterday, the money can't come from Medicare, it can't come from state appropriations, and you can't fund it using the commerce clause. They upheld the individual mandate, which means everyone will have to buy insurance, and insurance will have to cover everyone. But who is going to pay for the people who can't afford to pay? And you really don't believe your premiums are going to increase because of this? They'll have to increase, or you'll have to fork over 30% of your pay to cover the tax liability of public option. The choice of hiding the costs under shells and moving them around as you debate the greatness of your idea, isn't going to work anymore.
 
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