House Renews Patriot Act

Dixie said:
Again... what RIGHT have they "stamped on"? This is false outrage over nothingness! They adopted measures to enable them to eavesdrop on terrorists currently operating in cells within the US, and planning/plotting terror attacks on US citizens! What the fuck is the big deal? They aren't telling you that you can't go outside! They aren't telling you that you must leave your home! They aren't telling you to give up your guns! No "freedom" you have has been usurped in any way shape or form, you are overreacting to nonsense.

If Ben Franklin were here, he would slap the taste out of your mouth for abusing his quote in such a manner! Do you honestly think he would disapprove of using ANY measure to ensure the safety of the American people in a time of war? They didn't have email and cell phones back then, they could only communicate through the written word... do you think Franklin would have opposed intercepting a dispatch from Benedict Arnold to the Brits, in order to protect America? I seriously doubt it!
Click to expand...
Again. Bull. There is a specific limitation in the constitution that covers this, if we are not protective of those specific rights outlined we are doomed when it comes to other rights not delineated but covered by the 9th.

Seriously. Listen to yourself argue that we need to throw away our founding documents. Slow down and really listen. Remember how many times you accused somebody else of "tearing it up" or even of "judicial activism".

Just listen to yourself argue that our government should ignore the limitations specifically set on it. You should be ashamed at any moment you chastise another for ignoring an Amendment in the constitution, abjectly and permanently ashamed.
 
Damocles said:
Again. Bull. There is a specific limitation in the constitution that covers this, if we are not protective of those specific rights outlined we are doomed when it comes to other rights not delineated but covered by the 9th.

Seriously. Listen to yourself argue that we need to throw away our founding documents. Slow down and really listen. Remember how many times you accused somebody else of "tearing it up" or even of "judicial activism".

Just listen to yourself argue that our government should ignore the limitations specifically set on it. You should be ashamed at any moment you chastise another for ignoring an Amendment in the constitution, abjectly and permanently ashamed.
Click to expand...

I think I understand the limits set by the Constitution better than you do! I happen to believe those limits have not been exceeded with the Patriot Act, and they simply couldn't be, because someone would take a case to the SCOTUS if that did happen! The Constitutional protections we have are the very reason the Patriot Act is not a threat to our freedom, and can't be, really! We already have a mechanism to litigate this, if it should ever become the case and government should abuse it's Constitutional powers. So far, the Patriot Act has been vital in stopping terror attacks, several specific cases in particular, over the past 8 years! No telling how many thousands of innocent American lives have been saved because of this! And thus far, I have not seen ONE instance where ANYONE has had their essential rights violated by the Government due to proper usage of the Patriot Act! NOT ONE!
 
All jurors have a right to judge not only the facts, but the fitness of the law in the matter at hand, but if you start talking like this in a courtroom you will probably be held in contempt.

The legal system is corrupt all the way through. Judges regularly ignore the constitution for the secret syndicalist masters. Only a crazy lawyer would pick up this case on a constituional basis. Not even obama with his lefty talk can go against the patriot act, even being president of the majority party in power. He's supposedly the commander in chief. It's bigger than any publicly acknowledged authority.
 
Dixie said:
Ahhh... So you're going to leave some wiggle room! No stupid, it's called THINKING! The law is extended by not permanent....I'm not happy with that, and if NOTHING IS DONE along with a LOT OF OTHER STUFF in the next 3 years, Obama doesn't get my vote. Got it? Okay, I just wanted to clarify that you are a hypocrite who still plans to suck Obama's ass all the way to the polls in 2012, like we all know you will. Not surprising....Given your willful ignorance, your inability to comprehend what you read, and your insipid stubborness, I dare say your conclusions and response are painfully predictable. You're "not happy" just like Onzies was "outraged and renouncing" over his sending more troops to Iraq and Afghanistan, but you will both trot your liberal Democrat ass-sucking selves to the polls and pull the lever for Obama in 2012, because you would rather vote for someone you "don't like" than to vote for someone from a party you HATE! ...I totally get it!
Click to expand...

No, you're totally stupid, because your supposition and conjecture here has NOTHING to do with what I stated about Obama and the Patriot Act. I don't know who "Onzie" is, and the discussion here was NOT about Iraq or Afghanistan. You want to discuss that seperately, then have it....but for now try to stay on topic and within the realm of reality regarding what is actually being said and NOT what you want people to say. Got that bunky?

Grow a pair and honestly answer this question: Are you content that Obama, a man and administration/agenda that you despise, has the power to have YOU under surveillence, arrested, indefinitely detained and/or extraordinarily renditioned WITHOUT habeus corpus, proof of probable cause, or being officially charged with a crime? Because that's what the Partiot Act does for you....the majority of the Congress didn't even read the whole thing when they signed off on it.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
The Patriot Act allows for the Executive branch to disregard habeus corpus as well as remove the proof of probable cause from our law enforcement and security/intelligence agencies. In other words, my willfully ignorant neocon fool, after the FBI does a wiretap on you, and gathers enough "evidence", Obama can declare you a threat and have you detained for an undetermined time WITHOUT CHARGING YOU OR GIVE YOU ACCESS TO COUNCIL OR HAVE YOUR DAY IN COURT.

This is why the "left" has been raising hell despite the MSM lumping that protest into just the polls indicating loss of support among former Obama voters and supporters.
Click to expand...

Southern Man said:
Since there wouldn't be any evidence that I'm a terrorist, I have nothing to worry about.
Click to expand...

You idiot, YOU WOULDN'T KNOW ABOUT THE "EVIDENCE" BECAUSE UNDER THE PATRIOT ACT THERE IS NO OBLIGATION OR REQUIREMENT TO PRESENT ANY TO YOU. Just ask the over 500 people who were kicked from Gitmo WITHOUT EVER BEING CHARGED...or the countless number who were culled by phone companies, or those that were either snatched or arrested (domestic & foreign).

Get it now, dummy? That's what Obama inherited from the Shrub, that's what he can do to YOU....and there are many folks who found themselves on "no fly" list who never thought in a million years that it would happen to them.

So stop acting like a wussy and give me an honest answer.
 
Dixie said:
I think I understand the limits set by the Constitution better than you do!
Click to expand...

No. you really don't. you might like to THINK you do. but in reality, you're nothing but a 'living' constitutionalist, like any other liberal. you're hands down an statist, believing that the government needs free reign to do what you want to make you feel safe. fuck everyone elses rights.
 
Taichiliberal said:
You idiot, YOU WOULDN'T KNOW ABOUT THE "EVIDENCE" BECAUSE UNDER THE PATRIOT ACT THERE IS NO OBLIGATION OR REQUIREMENT TO PRESENT ANY TO YOU. Just ask the over 500 people who were kicked from Gitmo WITHOUT EVER BEING CHARGED...or the countless number who were culled by phone companies, or those that were either snatched or arrested (domestic & foreign).

Get it now, dummy? That's what Obama inherited from the Shrub, that's what he can do to YOU....and there are many folks who found themselves on "no fly" list who never thought in a million years that it would happen to them.

So stop acting like a wussy and give me an honest answer.
Click to expand...

You dummy. Read the "chronology of the posts". :palm:
 
Southern Man said:
You dummy. Read the "chronology of the posts". :palm:
Click to expand...

Translation: Caught in the logic he can't escape...Southie tries to bluff his way out by trying to mock me...unfortunately the idiot uses a quote out of context ....displaying that he has no definitive response to alter his being proved wrong.

Once again, I'll clue in Southie the dumb bastard..... Posts #61 and #107.....if he can produce any posts of exchanges between us that alters the logical conclusion of these two, I'd like to see it...because the bottom line is either he's just gain saying to score a grudge point or he's trying to dodge admitting error or he's truly fucking stupid.
 
Last edited:
SmarterThanYou said:
No. you really don't. you might like to THINK you do. but in reality, you're nothing but a 'living' constitutionalist, like any other liberal. you're hands down an statist, believing that the government needs free reign to do what you want to make you feel safe. fuck everyone elses rights.
Click to expand...

Nope, I don't think the government needs "free reign to do what I want to make me feel safe" and I haven't articulated such a point. I do, however, think the government is responsible for protecting the citizens of the United States, I think that is their primary function and duty, and reasonable measures they need to take in order to do that, is okay with me. I am not a statist, and it doesn't do your argument any justice to call me names or tie me to the left, especially when I am advocating something the left has been vehemently opposed to... which you, incidentally, agree with them on!

This whole debate about the Patriot Act stripping and trampling our freedoms and Constitution, is absolute alarmist extremist horse shit! No one has had any fundamental essential right violated as the result of the Patriot Act, and they won't! And IF they did, the courts would make the government pay dearly for it. You should have sense enough to realize the very LIBERAL court system in America, specifically the Federal Courts of Appeal, would cream their jeans over the opportunity to tarnish the Bush reputation with some finding of unconstitutionality in the Patriot Act, but that has not happened, has it? And it won't happen, because the unconstitutionality does not exist! You have bought in to the left-wing LIES and distortions, and your "libertarianism" has prompted you to adopt a ridiculous position against common fucking sense. Congratulations! You have enabled the Lefties to seize full control of government while you sat sulking in the corner over this, mad at Bush and the right, refusing to vote against Socialism, and helping the solidified left deliver our first Communist Socialist president, who is dismantling America as fast as he can! Well done, BOZO!
 
Dixie said:
Nope, I don't think the government needs "free reign to do what I want to make me feel safe" and I haven't articulated such a point. I do, however, think the government is responsible for protecting the citizens of the United States, I think that is their primary function and duty, and reasonable measures they need to take in order to do that, is okay with me. I am not a statist, and it doesn't do your argument any justice to call me names or tie me to the left, especially when I am advocating something the left has been vehemently opposed to... which you, incidentally, agree with them on!
Click to expand...
The governments primary duty and responsibility is to protect the RIGHTS of the people. not their lives, not their bank accounts, and not their families.

Dixie said:
This whole debate about the Patriot Act stripping and trampling our freedoms and Constitution, is absolute alarmist extremist horse shit! No one has had any fundamental essential right violated as the result of the Patriot Act, and they won't! And IF they did, the courts would make the government pay dearly for it. You should have sense enough to realize the very LIBERAL court system in America, specifically the Federal Courts of Appeal, would cream their jeans over the opportunity to tarnish the Bush reputation with some finding of unconstitutionality in the Patriot Act, but that has not happened, has it? And it won't happen, because the unconstitutionality does not exist! You have bought in to the left-wing LIES and distortions, and your "libertarianism" has prompted you to adopt a ridiculous position against common fucking sense. Congratulations! You have enabled the Lefties to seize full control of government while you sat sulking in the corner over this, mad at Bush and the right, refusing to vote against Socialism, and helping the solidified left deliver our first Communist Socialist president, who is dismantling America as fast as he can! Well done, BOZO!
Click to expand...
you are seriously deluded. If you can think for even a single second that the federal court systems have sided with the PEOPLE over the government over the last 150 years, there is no debating with you. the courts have consistently sided with the government and it's ridiculous argument of compelling state interest and to claim otherwise marks you as ignorant of the real happenings in this country.
 
The governments primary duty and responsibility is to protect the RIGHTS of the people. not their lives, not their bank accounts, and not their families.
Click to expand...

LMFAO... ONE of those rights is LIFE! I would argue it is the MOST IMPORTANT of ALL the rights, because... well, without it, what difference do the others make?
 
Dixie said:
LMFAO... ONE of those rights is LIFE! I would argue it is the MOST IMPORTANT of ALL the rights, because... well, without it, what difference do the others make?
Click to expand...

i knew it. you've never READ the constitution. you just take bits and pieces that liberals grab and twist them to your own ends. read it, then come back to me.
 
you are seriously deluded. If you can think for even a single second that the federal court systems have sided with the PEOPLE over the government over the last 150 years, there is no debating with you. the courts have consistently sided with the government and it's ridiculous argument of compelling state interest and to claim otherwise marks you as ignorant of the real happenings in this country.
Click to expand...

Well I know of a lot of instances where the courts sided with the people, particularly when the government was violating the Constitution... but that's the thing, the government is teaming with plenty of constitutional lawyer types, and generally speaking, don't go around violating the constitution! That's kinda my whole point! This knee jerk reactionary paranoia about the government doing something they aren't inherently able, willing, or inclined to do! There are all sorts of checks and balances, at some point, some PERSON in the government, steps up and says... no, we can't do this, it is a violation of the Constitution, and if we do, we are in serious deep do-do! The actual "Government" does not operate of its own volition, it's not some rogue entity out there sucking up our freedoms if we aren't diligent in defending them. For the most part, government is controlled and run by US, The People of the United States!
 
SmarterThanYou said:
i knew it. you've never READ the constitution. you just take bits and pieces that liberals grab and twist them to your own ends. read it, then come back to me.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's it... I haven't ever read the fucking Constitution... can we have a show of hands here? How many people actually believe that I have never read the Consta-fucking-tution? Come on, you are supposed to be "smarter than me?"

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The Patriot Act specifically "ESTABLISHES JUSTICE!"
The Patriot Act specifically "INSURES DOMESTIC TRANQUILITY!"
The Patriot Act specifically "PROVIDES FOR COMMON DEFENSE!"
 
Dixie said:
Well I know of a lot of instances where the courts sided with the people, particularly when the government was violating the Constitution... but that's the thing, the government is teaming with plenty of constitutional lawyer types, and generally speaking, don't go around violating the constitution! That's kinda my whole point! This knee jerk reactionary paranoia about the government doing something they aren't inherently able, willing, or inclined to do! There are all sorts of checks and balances, at some point, some PERSON in the government, steps up and says... no, we can't do this, it is a violation of the Constitution, and if we do, we are in serious deep do-do! The actual "Government" does not operate of its own volition, it's not some rogue entity out there sucking up our freedoms if we aren't diligent in defending them. For the most part, government is controlled and run by US, The People of the United States!
Click to expand...

if I can show you ONE SINGLE CASE where the government and the USSC KNEW they were violating the constitution of the united states, would YOU be willing to capitulate that you were just dead wrong on everything you just said?
 
SmarterThanYou said:
if I can show you ONE SINGLE CASE where the government and the USSC KNEW they were violating the constitution of the united states, would YOU be willing to capitulate that you were just dead wrong on everything you just said?
Click to expand...

No, because it would defy logic and most likely be your personal interpretation which lead to that conclusion, not the conclusion of the SCOTUS. Go read up on what the SCOTUS role is in Government, they are specifically charged with interpreting what IS and ISN'T constitutional. You are claiming they KNEW something to be unconstitutional, but said it was constitutional anyway? Show me that in their words, that exact sentiment, and I will believe you. I think you are deliberately leaving something out.
 
Dixie said:
No, because it would defy logic and most likely be your personal interpretation which lead to that conclusion, not the conclusion of the SCOTUS. Go read up on what the SCOTUS role is in Government, they are specifically charged with interpreting what IS and ISN'T constitutional. You are claiming they KNEW something to be unconstitutional, but said it was constitutional anyway? Show me that in their words, that exact sentiment, and I will believe you. I think you are deliberately leaving something out.
Click to expand...

:facepalm:

Dixie, you have claimed that numerous things the government was doing to help the poor was unconstitutional, and yet...

:facepalm:

Sometimes, there are no words.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top