House Renews Patriot Act

Dixie said:
What "freedom" did you have taken by the Patriot Act?
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This is a non-starter. It is our responsibility (IMO, this word is often synonymous with right) to protect the rights of others as vehemently as we would our own.

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.

by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945

If we don't stand up before it is our rights that are mangled, when it comes time to protect our rights there will be nothing we will be able to do.
 
Southern Man said:
Key word: 'essential". Is it essential that you talk to some bloke in Pakistan in total secret?
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It is essential that the government have need enough to seek a warrant if they want to listen to my conversations to some bloke in Pakistan.
 
Dixie said:
And fuck you for endangering the life of me and my family over some false accusation that you have had your rights violated! The Patriot Act has not infringed one iota on your rights, or the rights of ANY law-abiding American citizen, and if it did, there is a mechanism in place to deal with that, it's called a U.S. Federal Court! Believe me, if people were getting their Constitutional rights trampled, there WOULD be some cases being filed there!
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typical statist. believe and trust in your government in all things. and I have NOT endangered you or your family. lets stop with the drama and hyperbole, shall we? And if you think for one second that the federal courts are going to side with me over you and your terrorist fears, you're retarded.
 
This is a non-starter.
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No, it's definitely a "starter" because YOU started it! You claim we are giving up essential freedoms, and that simply is NOT the case with regard to the Patriot Act! We are, at best, sacrificing a modest amount of personal privacy... MAYBE! As I said before, it is a much less egregious encroachment of our "freedom" than what goes on at the airports on a daily basis to every passenger who chooses to fly! It's even less of a "restriction" on our freedom than the posted speed limits on ANY American highway!
 
Southern Man said:
They did; its called "The Patriot Act".
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*sigh*

There is a provision that they can even seek the warrant after the fact. The PATRIOT Act cannot suspend a constitutional Amendment just because you are all frightened.

They need to get warrants. It isn't that hard, the courts rarely refuse them, and it ensures that there is reason to listen in on specific targets.
 
Dixie said:
And they STILL ARE restricted in most all cases. How can our "rule of law" (the Constitution) apply to people who are not on American soil? Especially, people who are actively trying to destroy America through acts of war against it? I don't understand this logic... we have to give Maranda rights to our military enemies? It makes NO sense whatsoever, and is tantamount to tying our hands behind our back and trying to fight an enemy that is nearly impossible to beat with BOTH hands!
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ZOMG!!!!!the terrorists hate us for our freedoms, lets surrender them all!!!!

do you pay attention to the courts at all? Have you watched and learned what they've been doing over the last 8 years? Just this year, the 9th circuit paved the way for warrantless searches of properties in the immediate vicinity of criminal arrests for officer safety. The USSC did away with Miranda necessity. They also removed the exclusionary rule, stating the exact same thing that Dixie did about having the abilty to apply for redress of grievances, but lo and behold, they didn't remove the qualified immunity claim. That means that YES, you can indeed sue, and lose.

You carry a gun? man up and be prepared to use it against terrorism, should it ever get here.
 
Damocles said:
*sigh*

There is a provision that they can even seek the warrant after the fact. The PATRIOT Act cannot suspend a constitutional Amendment just because you are all frightened.

They need to get warrants. It isn't that hard, the courts rarely refuse them, and it ensures that there is reason to listen in on specific targets.
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Actually, I'm the one who is not frightened that some first year FBI agent would listen to me talk to some guy in Pakistan.

A specific warrant takes too much time; the conversation would be over by then; it is not smart to restrict ourselves to police tactics to fight a war.
 
Another way they can go around this requirement is by listening in at a point that is outside the jurisdiction of the US.
 
Southern Man said:
Actually, I'm the one who is not frightened that some first year FBI agent would listen to me talk to some guy in Pakistan.

A specific warrant takes too much time; the conversation would be over by then; it is not smart to restrict ourselves to police tactics to fight a war.
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No, you want them to stamp on somebody else's right because you are frightened that somebody might fly a plane into some place you are. And again, there is a provision to get the warrant after the fact if they have the need. Get them. It is always smart to protect our rights and especially so during times of war.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
ZOMG!!!!!the terrorists hate us for our freedoms, lets surrender them all!!!!
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Where has anyone suggested this? You are taking an extremist position, one that curiously sides with liberal socialist communists who seek to destroy America, does that just not compute in your libertarian brain? The libs make hay out of the Patriot Act because they know they can get nitwit Libertarians to stand up and defiantly quote Ben Franklin and engage Conservatives in some flawed debate over our freedoms, and while we are arguing about it, they are dismantling the America we know and love! You are a willing enabler of that! Because you are so paranoid that the government is going to overhear your conversation with cousin Lou, as if they are sitting there monitoring every phone call you make! Get fucking real man!
 
Damocles said:
No, you want them to stamp on somebody else's right because you are frightened that somebody might fly a plane into some place you are. And again, there is a provision to get the warrant after the fact if they have the need. Get them. It is always smart to protect our rights and especially so during times of war.
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You appear to be advocating "listen now, warrant later". How is that different than my position?
 
you conservatives crack me up. 'it's just a little freedom, it will make us safer, what do you have to hide'?

guess GW was right when he said the constitution could be used as toilet paper now. you'd rather be serfs and 'feel' protected than to be free.
 
Damocles said:
No, you want them to stamp on somebody else's right because you are frightened that somebody might fly a plane into some place you are. And again, there is a provision to get the warrant after the fact if they have the need. Get them. It is always smart to protect our rights and especially so during times of war.
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Again... what RIGHT have they "stamped on"? This is false outrage over nothingness! They adopted measures to enable them to eavesdrop on terrorists currently operating in cells within the US, and planning/plotting terror attacks on US citizens! What the fuck is the big deal? They aren't telling you that you can't go outside! They aren't telling you that you must leave your home! They aren't telling you to give up your guns! No "freedom" you have has been usurped in any way shape or form, you are overreacting to nonsense.

If Ben Franklin were here, he would slap the taste out of your mouth for abusing his quote in such a manner! Do you honestly think he would disapprove of using ANY measure to ensure the safety of the American people in a time of war? They didn't have email and cell phones back then, they could only communicate through the written word... do you think Franklin would have opposed intercepting a dispatch from Benedict Arnold to the Brits, in order to protect America? I seriously doubt it!
 
Dixie said:
If Ben Franklin were here, he would slap the taste out of your mouth for abusing his quote in such a manner!
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oh bull shit. the founding fathers of this country feared the exact thing that you are advocating right here and now, that an overbearing government would suppress our rights and tell us we're safer for it. you have less than zero clue about the framers.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
you conservatives crack me up. 'it's just a little freedom, it will make us safer, what do you have to hide'?

guess GW was right when he said the constitution could be used as toilet paper now. you'd rather be serfs and 'feel' protected than to be free.
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I see we are at the point where your argument, having failed, gives way to hyperbole and ridicule.
 
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