Hospital charges: Some bill more 'because they can'

christiefan915

Catalyst
This article was in today's paper and below are some excerpts. I think it makes a nice counterpoint to Damo's thread about MS drugs. Maybe someone can explain why the free market hospital system here (read: monopoly) gets to gouge patients "because they can." How is Obamacare worse than this?


"When Steven Gray was diagnosed with terminal Stage IV pancreatic cancer in 2012, he received treatment at both Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore and UPMC Passavant near his Butler home. The family was fortunate, said his wife, Patty Cudoc-Gray, because their insurance covered all but the $20 co-payments for each visit.

But when she later examined the Explanation of Benefits records sent by Pittsburgh insurer Highmark, she could hardly believe what she saw:

For Mr. Gray's last round of outpatient chemo at Johns Hopkins on Jan. 10, 2013 -- including medications, IV therapy, supplies and pharmacy service -- the hospital charged $2,544.65 and was paid $2,493.06 by Highmark.

Two weeks later, for the same procedure and ancillaries, UPMC Passavant charged $13,789.75 and Highmark paid $7,704.40.

Looking at the line item charges for standard chemotherapy drugs, she later learned that Highmark paid Johns Hopkins $761.40 for 1 milligram of Docetaxel. For the same dose of the same drug, UPMC got $2,542.50.

Another example: For a 200 mg Gemcitabine injection, Hopkins collected $143.10. UPMC got $1,051. "I said, 'How can they charge five times the amount [as Johns Hopkins] and collect three times the amount?' " asked Ms. Cudoc-Gray.

Gerard Anderson, director for the Center for Hospital Finance and Management at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore, thinks he knows why UPMC charges more.

"Basically the answer is simple: Because they can," he said. "There is nobody telling them how much they can charge and so they charge as much as they can get."

Mr. Anderson said the Grays' experience illustrates the ills of the current health care payment system, which outside of Medicare sets no limits on what a hospital can charge -- even as it keeps those charges hidden from the consumers who end up paying higher insurance premiums.


Ms. Cudoc-Gray "had no idea about the relative costs prior to going to both places," said Mr. Anderson. "And she couldn't have because the prices are unknown. They're a secret."

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/busines...ary-widely/stories/201402160092#ixzz2MwbjhD2p
 
Yep. You can drive down the street and get the exact same care for THOUSANDS less.

The Hospital "chargemaster" can charge anything he/she wants.

There are hundreds of ways to make Insurance cheaper. Less price gouging and stopping unnecessary visits are the top two ways IMO. Say you have a permanent condition and your prescription is for life and the dose will never change. You are still obligated to have an appointment to renew that prescription. And I shouldn't have to discuss the price gouging corporations do when they know insurance or government are the buyers...If you don't know about this there is no help for you.
 
I wonder if Christiekins "feels" that the government should set prices for goods and services instead of the market...:dunno:
 
This article was in today's paper and below are some excerpts. I think it makes a nice counterpoint to Damo's thread about MS drugs. Maybe someone can explain why the free market hospital system here (read: monopoly) gets to gouge patients "because they can." How is Obamacare worse than this?


"When Steven Gray was diagnosed with terminal Stage IV pancreatic cancer in 2012, he received treatment at both Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore and UPMC Passavant near his Butler home. The family was fortunate, said his wife, Patty Cudoc-Gray, because their insurance covered all but the $20 co-payments for each visit.

But when she later examined the Explanation of Benefits records sent by Pittsburgh insurer Highmark, she could hardly believe what she saw:

For Mr. Gray's last round of outpatient chemo at Johns Hopkins on Jan. 10, 2013 -- including medications, IV therapy, supplies and pharmacy service -- the hospital charged $2,544.65 and was paid $2,493.06 by Highmark.

Two weeks later, for the same procedure and ancillaries, UPMC Passavant charged $13,789.75 and Highmark paid $7,704.40.

Looking at the line item charges for standard chemotherapy drugs, she later learned that Highmark paid Johns Hopkins $761.40 for 1 milligram of Docetaxel. For the same dose of the same drug, UPMC got $2,542.50.

Another example: For a 200 mg Gemcitabine injection, Hopkins collected $143.10. UPMC got $1,051. "I said, 'How can they charge five times the amount [as Johns Hopkins] and collect three times the amount?' " asked Ms. Cudoc-Gray.

Gerard Anderson, director for the Center for Hospital Finance and Management at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore, thinks he knows why UPMC charges more.

"Basically the answer is simple: Because they can," he said. "There is nobody telling them how much they can charge and so they charge as much as they can get."

Mr. Anderson said the Grays' experience illustrates the ills of the current health care payment system, which outside of Medicare sets no limits on what a hospital can charge -- even as it keeps those charges hidden from the consumers who end up paying higher insurance premiums.


Ms. Cudoc-Gray "had no idea about the relative costs prior to going to both places," said Mr. Anderson. "And she couldn't have because the prices are unknown. They're a secret."

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/busines...ary-widely/stories/201402160092#ixzz2MwbjhD2p

RN's and PA's getting about $70,000 or more, plus benefits, and the heating and cooling and other up keep must be in the 100's of thousands or millions to run a hosp.
Equipment cost ?...who can guess...

Everyone wants to get paid as much as they can get and no one wants to pay the freight....where I live, healthcare is the by far the biggest industry and employs
more people than any other business in the region....I have friends that are paying 12,000 to 14,000 A MONTH for their mothers care in nursing homes..at least until
mom's money runs out...I was paying $2900 a month for my mothers care in assist. living with things like meds., laundry, etc. extra....thats the min. level of care...
higher levels of care of course cost more......
Teachers, plumbers, carpenters, garbage men, bus drivers, etc. are demanding more in their paychecks all the time..
Obama is handing out raises and better benefits to federal workers that already are paid well over comparable jobs in the private sector.....now you want berger flippers to make $10-14 an hour....with no end in sight....
 
Private for profit hospitals are horrible, they overcharge and many times give the worst care, shortage of employees, long wait times in emergency rooms.

When profit is involved you can bet you will take it up the bumper
 
Private for profit hospitals give the worst care, shortage of employees, long wait times in emergency rooms.

star_wars_clone_wars_yoda.jpg



Proof of your claims give you must.
 
RN's and PA's getting about $70,000 or more, plus benefits, and the heating and cooling and other up keep must be in the 100's of thousands or millions to run a hosp.
Equipment cost ?...who can guess...

Everyone wants to get paid as much as they can get and no one wants to pay the freight....where I live, healthcare is the by far the biggest industry and employs
more people than any other business in the region....I have friends that are paying 12,000 to 14,000 A MONTH for their mothers care in nursing homes..at least until
mom's money runs out...I was paying $2900 a month for my mothers care in assist. living with things like meds., laundry, etc. extra....thats the min. level of care...
higher levels of care of course cost more......
Teachers, plumbers, carpenters, garbage men, bus drivers, etc. are demanding more in their paychecks all the time..
Obama is handing out raises and better benefits to federal workers that already are paid well over comparable jobs in the private sector.....now you want berger flippers to make $10-14 an hour....with no end in sight....
So do both hospitals has such high and unforseen (by you) expenses, or just the one charging 5 times as much, Bravatard?
 
RN's and PA's getting about $70,000 or more, plus benefits, and the heating and cooling and other up keep must be in the 100's of thousands or millions to run a hosp.
Equipment cost ?...who can guess...

Everyone wants to get paid as much as they can get and no one wants to pay the freight....where I live, healthcare is the by far the biggest industry and employs
more people than any other business in the region....I have friends that are paying 12,000 to 14,000 A MONTH for their mothers care in nursing homes..at least until
mom's money runs out...I was paying $2900 a month for my mothers care in assist. living with things like meds., laundry, etc. extra....thats the min. level of care...
higher levels of care of course cost more......
Teachers, plumbers, carpenters, garbage men, bus drivers, etc. are demanding more in their paychecks all the time..
Obama is handing out raises and better benefits to federal workers that already are paid well over comparable jobs in the private sector.....now you want berger flippers to make $10-14 an hour....with no end in sight....

Are you saying that costs are so high mainly because of salaries?

I think Johns Hopkins is a better hospital than any of those in Pittsburgh yet they manage to keep their costs lower.
 
Are you saying that costs are so high mainly because of salaries?

I think Johns Hopkins is a better hospital than any of those in Pittsburgh yet they manage to keep their costs lower.

"Are you saying that costs are so high mainly because of salaries?"


Really...is that all you got out of my post ? The first 10 words and you went brain dead?
 
This article was in today's paper and below are some excerpts. I think it makes a nice counterpoint to Damo's thread about MS drugs. Maybe someone can explain why the free market hospital system here (read: monopoly) gets to gouge patients "because they can." How is Obamacare worse than this?


"When Steven Gray was diagnosed with terminal Stage IV pancreatic cancer in 2012, he received treatment at both Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore and UPMC Passavant near his Butler home. The family was fortunate, said his wife, Patty Cudoc-Gray, because their insurance covered all but the $20 co-payments for each visit.

But when she later examined the Explanation of Benefits records sent by Pittsburgh insurer Highmark, she could hardly believe what she saw:

For Mr. Gray's last round of outpatient chemo at Johns Hopkins on Jan. 10, 2013 -- including medications, IV therapy, supplies and pharmacy service -- the hospital charged $2,544.65 and was paid $2,493.06 by Highmark.

Two weeks later, for the same procedure and ancillaries, UPMC Passavant charged $13,789.75 and Highmark paid $7,704.40.

Looking at the line item charges for standard chemotherapy drugs, she later learned that Highmark paid Johns Hopkins $761.40 for 1 milligram of Docetaxel. For the same dose of the same drug, UPMC got $2,542.50.

Another example: For a 200 mg Gemcitabine injection, Hopkins collected $143.10. UPMC got $1,051. "I said, 'How can they charge five times the amount [as Johns Hopkins] and collect three times the amount?' " asked Ms. Cudoc-Gray.

Gerard Anderson, director for the Center for Hospital Finance and Management at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore, thinks he knows why UPMC charges more.

"Basically the answer is simple: Because they can," he said. "There is nobody telling them how much they can charge and so they charge as much as they can get."

Mr. Anderson said the Grays' experience illustrates the ills of the current health care payment system, which outside of Medicare sets no limits on what a hospital can charge -- even as it keeps those charges hidden from the consumers who end up paying higher insurance premiums.


Ms. Cudoc-Gray "had no idea about the relative costs prior to going to both places," said Mr. Anderson. "And she couldn't have because the prices are unknown. They're a secret."

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/busines...ary-widely/stories/201402160092#ixzz2MwbjhD2p

Anyone thinking there is a free market in healthcare either doesn't understand free markets or doesn't understand how healthcare is paid for.

I know that many will not accept this, but hospital charges are largely irrelevant. Hospitals and insurance companies negotiate prices for the care of patients.

Of course hospitals don't negotiate with the gobblement because it is a coercive monopolistic entity. Since the advent of DRGs hospital charges are meaningless. For a long time private insurance subsidized the meager reimbursements by the gobblement. But, no more.

The answer lies in the $20 copay quoted in this article. This patient like many are not making rational economic decisions because they are shielded from the true costs of their care.

It reminds me if when Mott came on here indignant about his hospital charges because his itty bitty heart skipped a beat. Of course it was easy for Mott to feign indignation after the fact, but I am sure that he derived all sorts of piece of mind from the blood work, EKG and cardiac stress they did for him.

Unfortunately people are getting exactly what they deserve and have asked for. They just don't know it and they will always blame somebody else.
 
"Are you saying that costs are so high mainly because of salaries?"

Really...is that all you got out of my post ? The first 10 words and you went brain dead?

Most of your post was about salaries, so yes, that's what I got out of it. When you talk about the costs for nursing home care you're mostly talking about salaries, not expensive medical procedures.

Bravs: RN's and PA's getting about $70,000 or more, plus benefits, and the heating and cooling and other up keep must be in the 100's of thousands or millions to run a hosp.
Equipment cost ?...who can guess...


Everyone wants to get paid as much as they can get and no one wants to pay the freight....where I live, healthcare is the by far the biggest industry and employs more people than any other business in the region....I have friends that are paying 12,000 to 14,000 A MONTH for their mothers care in nursing homes..at least until mom's money runs out...I was paying $2900 a month for my mothers care in assist. living with things like meds., laundry, etc. extra....thats the min. level of care... higher levels of care of course cost more......

Teachers, plumbers, carpenters, garbage men, bus drivers, etc. are demanding more in their paychecks all the time..
Obama is handing out raises and better benefits to federal workers that already are paid well over comparable jobs in the private sector.....now you want berger flippers to make $10-14 an hour....with no end in sight....
 
Most of your post was about salaries, so yes, that's what I got out of it. When you talk about the costs for nursing home care you're mostly talking about salaries, not expensive medical procedures.

Bravs: RN's and PA's getting about $70,000 or more, plus benefits, and the heating and cooling and other up keep must be in the 100's of thousands or millions to run a hosp.
Equipment cost ?...who can guess...


Everyone wants to get paid as much as they can get and no one wants to pay the freight....where I live, healthcare is the by far the biggest industry and employs more people than any other business in the region....I have friends that are paying 12,000 to 14,000 A MONTH for their mothers care in nursing homes..at least until mom's money runs out...I was paying $2900 a month for my mothers care in assist. living with things like meds., laundry, etc. extra....thats the min. level of care... higher levels of care of course cost more......

Teachers, plumbers, carpenters, garbage men, bus drivers, etc. are demanding more in their paychecks all the time..
Obama is handing out raises and better benefits to federal workers that already are paid well over comparable jobs in the private sector.....now you want berger flippers to make $10-14 an hour....with no end in sight....

There is a lot of overhead in a hospital. And of
Course lets not forget the uncompensated care the gobblement forces on them.

The real problem in healthcare is a complete lack of understanding of economics among our citizenry.
 
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