Hillary & Iraq

CFM said:
You said there was never a clear and present danger to our homeland - never even a credible threat. That's what the Democrats say now yet opposite of what they said 18 years ago.
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I don't hear Democrats saying that now. Most say they were "mislead," but I haven't heard any of them say they didn't believe there was a clear & present danger at the time.

I don't see how it's relevant. I don't support them now, or try to "defend" their words. The only distinction between them & Bush is that Bush actually started that stupid war, which is something I hold him directly accountable for.
 
One of you hacks can get back to me when you even come close to starting a thread like this about Republicans.

I can't believe I even get into these kinds of discussions with posters who have never done anything but praise Republicans. As though they have some kind of moral authority on objectivity.
 
I do cut Clinton some slack for the Iraq vote; as was stated it was after 9-11, it was War Feverand there was bi-partisan support .
So I do not damn her for that alone..

When she hasn't learned that intervention for regime change (Libya/arming the Syrians) then that really does require condemnation.
One has to think she never saw a war she didn't want to pursue. She's an innate interventionist by all signs.

The neocons are slowly fading from the Repubs, but there are still the Gulliani's and the Bill Kristol -hell even Jeb Bush defends it.
This is where Rand Paul shines.
One of these days we're ALL gonna learn (again) that American exceptionalism isn't the same as interventionism.

PS.the vote for missile strikes was a vote for war it was implied with "saddam must go"
 
Thing1 said:
No - you have no idea what it means. I voted for both Bill Clinton & John Kerry.

Did you vote Republican in those elections? I guess using your logic, that makes you a GOP apologist. I mean, you ARE one, but not for that reason.
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You made yourself out to be a liar. In Post #55, you say "I won't vote for the ones who voted for the war". In Post #59, you said you voted for John Kerry.

In 2002, John Kerry (D- MA) voted "Yes" for the Authorization for use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (Public Law 107-243). It was that resolution that allowed the Iraq war to take place. It's easy to look up and see that I am correct about how Kerry voted as it's a matter of public record and a roll call vote.

You can also look up that John Kerry, someone that voted yes authorizing military action against Iraq and for whom you admit voting, ran for President AFTER he had voted yes. That means you did something in that election you said you wouldn't do. In other words, despite your claim, you did vote for someone that voted for the war.

I voted Republican in 2000 but Constitution Party (Michael Peroutka) in 2004, Constitution Party (Chuck Baldwin) in 2008, and Constitution Party (Virgin Goode) in 2012.
 
Thing1 said:
I don't hear Democrats saying that now. Most say they were "mislead," but I haven't heard any of them say they didn't believe there was a clear & present danger at the time.

I don't see how it's relevant. I don't support them now, or try to "defend" their words. The only distinction between them & Bush is that Bush actually started that stupid war, which is something I hold him directly accountable for.
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They were misled? How could Bush have misled them before he was President when they made quotes saying Saddam Hussein was a threat?

I've already caught you in a lie concerning Kerry. He voted yes for the Iraq Resolution. You said you wouldn't vote for someone that voted yes yet you admit voting for Kerry in 2004.
 
Thing1 said:
Here is my favorite NOVA stuff. Bush was just an innocent bystander! He had no choice! Clinton and congressional Dems forced his hand!

History is such an inconvenient thing for you guys.
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Bush was just an innocent bystander! He had no choice! Clinton and congressional Dems forced his hand!?????????

Exactly where did I say that ?

Democrats certainly didn't force Bush to did anything..... If anything forced him to take action it was 9/11 along with the numerous other terrorists attacks against US citizens and interests all over the world and the fact that Iraq was funding terrorism in the ME.....nor did Bush try to hide what he decided to do....it was obvious to the world.

Nobody forced Hillary and many other Democrats to vote for the resolution either.....if anything influenced their votes it might have been their own previous words.

Like I say ALL the time.....they did what they thought was best AT THAT TIME in history.....

Most of the country thought Saddam had wmd and was a danger to the country,....they've heard that for the previous 10 years.....

What you believe is irrelevant, you can't rewrite history no matter how hard you try.
 
NOVA said:
Bush was just an innocent bystander! He had no choice! Clinton and congressional Dems forced his hand!?????????

Exactly where did I say that ?

Democrats certainly didn't force Bush to did anything..... If anything forced him to take action it was 9/11 along with the numerous other terrorists attacks against US citizens and interests all over the world and the fact that Iraq was funding terrorism in the ME.....nor did Bush try to hide what he decided to do....it was obvious to the world.

Nobody forced Hillary and many other Democrats to vote for the resolution either.....if anything influenced their votes it might have been their own previous words.

Like I say ALL the time.....they did what they thought was best AT THAT TIME in history.....

Most of the country thought Saddam had wmd and was a danger to the country,....they've heard that for the previous 10 years.....

What you believe is irrelevant, you can't rewrite history no matter how hard you try.
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Thingy claimed he wouldn't vote for anyone that voted for the war. John Kerry voted yes on the Iraq Resolution and Thingy admits having voted for John Kerry AFTER Kerry voted yes.
 
Thing1 said:
I don't hear Democrats saying that now. Most say they were "mislead," but I haven't heard any of them say they didn't believe there was a clear & present danger at the time.

I don't see how it's relevant. I don't support them now, or try to "defend" their words. The only distinction between them & Bush is that Bush actually started that stupid war, which is something I hold him directly accountable for.
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And the undeniable fact and inconvenient truth is that he could not and would not have done it without the support from a lot of Democrats.....
 
CFM said:
Said you were a Democrat apologist. Didn't say you were a Democrat. You simply apologize for them.

I fully understand what it means. It's you that refuses to admit it's what you do on behalf of the Democrats.

Did you vote for Bill Clinton or John Kerry when he ran?
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Thingy denying being a Democrat is akin to Bruce Jenner claiming to be a women.....it just ain't so.
 
NOVA said:
And the undeniable fact and inconvenient truth is that he could not and would not have done it without the support from a lot of Democrats.....
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I'm still waiting on Thingy to explain how all those Democrats could have been misled by something they had already stated before Bush was President. If Democrats had already said what they claim Bush misled them on, how can they call it misleading?
 
CFM said:
You made yourself out to be a liar. In Post #55, you say "I won't vote for the ones who voted for the war". In Post #59, you said you voted for John Kerry.

In 2002, John Kerry (D- MA) voted "Yes" for the Authorization for use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (Public Law 107-243). It was that resolution that allowed the Iraq war to take place. It's easy to look up and see that I am correct about how Kerry voted as it's a matter of public record and a roll call vote.

You can also look up that John Kerry, someone that voted yes authorizing military action against Iraq and for whom you admit voting, ran for President AFTER he had voted yes. That means you did something in that election you said you wouldn't do. In other words, despite your claim, you did vote for someone that voted for the war.

I voted Republican in 2000 but Constitution Party (Michael Peroutka) in 2004, Constitution Party (Chuck Baldwin) in 2008, and Constitution Party (Virgin Goode) in 2012.
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How is that a lie? I won't vote for anyone who voted for that war. TODAY. At the time, Kerry was against the guy who started the war. I was definitely a lesser of 2 evils guys then.
 
CFM said:
They were misled? How could Bush have misled them before he was President when they made quotes saying Saddam Hussein was a threat?

I've already caught you in a lie concerning Kerry. He voted yes for the Iraq Resolution. You said you wouldn't vote for someone that voted yes yet you admit voting for Kerry in 2004.
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I'm not saying they were misled, dopey. I'm saying that THEY say that.

You have immense problems w/ the language.
 
NOVA said:
Thingy denying being a Democrat is akin to Bruce Jenner claiming to be a women.....it just ain't so.
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LOL

Says who? Another hack, just projecting their hackishness.

Like I said - let me know when you or CFM start a thread like this about someone on the right. Hacks.
 
Darth Hussein Omar said:
Doesn't the fact Bill Clinton thought Saddam had WMD's go to the point that everyone did? Did he have something going with Haliburton lol?

It's an old and threadbare debate but it's too easy to criticize votes for the war in retrospect. The country had just had its worst attack by a foreign enemy in it's history.
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bush tried his best to tie Iraq to the 9/11 attack and way too many suckers believed him.
 
NOVA said:
I see no sense in even responding to you....you can't even separate the 'war' from the 'occupation'.....

If you've got something to add to the thread, other than personal attacks against the posters, spit it out.....

I don't apologize for anyone, not Bush, not Hillary, and not even Bill Clinton....I prefer to believe they all acted in good faith with what they believed at the time.....

And that was obviously that Saddam had WMD and as BC and his admin. stated over and over, he constituted a danger to the US.....
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Even if they believed he had WMD at the time, it wasn't our business to go to war over it. We know that Russia, China, Pakistan and North Korea have nukes but we're in no hurry to take them on.
 
cawacko said:
When I watch the debates it seems to me Hillary is far ahead of Sanders when it comes to experience and knowledge regarding foreign policy. However Sanders continually hits on the point you mentioned of the Iraq vote.

Mott has mentioned he vowed to never vote for anyone who supported the Iraq War. I'm sure he's probably not the only one who thought something similar. From an outsider (or right wing) perspective it seems a tough predicament in the sense of not wanting to support Hillary for that reason yet thinking Bernie is just too far left for one's taste.
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it is but what is a credible option? Voting for someone you don't believe in? Not voting? I'm doing some soul searching over this. Bernie is far left of where I am on economics but he is spot on about foreign affairs.
 
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