Here is the System our soldiers died to create.

When did our promise to the inhabitants expire?

At the same time our promises to South Vietnam, the Kurds, Nicaragua, El Salvador, the cuban revolutionaries in the early 60s, and a host of other people we made promises to and betrayed.

Are you saying it should be different? If its in our national interests to abandon someone, shouldn't we do just that? :pke:
 
When did our promise to the inhabitants expire?
How long must we babysit countries? Israel is an established country. They are the strongest country in the region. I understood why we agreed at some point to come to their aid, but now, they don't need us. They have nukes, they have a decent air force. They have been around for 60 years. Time to pull up their big girl panties and take care of themselves.
 
How long must we babysit countries? Israel is an established country. They are the strongest country in the region. I understood why we agreed at some point to come to their aid, but now, they don't need us. They have nukes, they have a decent air force. They have been around for 60 years. Time to pull up their big girl panties and take care of themselves.
Actually, they are surrounded by many countries bent on their destruction, so taken as a whole you're probably wrong, not that it matters. Great Britain is militarily strong and they've been our ally longer, so by your logic we should say "fuck you" to them as well. Again, When did our promise to Israel expire?
 
Actually, they are surrounded by many countries bent on their destruction, so taken as a whole you're probably wrong, not that it matters. Great Britain is militarily strong and they've been our ally longer, so by your logic we should say "fuck you" to them as well. Again, When did our promise to Israel expire?

When they no longer served our national interest. Let me ask you, do you think we should support them for more than political reasons? Do you think that we have some sort of biblical obligation? Because that reason is worse than any "we promised" reason around. We have promised a lot of things. We promised the Kurds we would provide air support after the first gulf war and we didn't. We decided it was not in our national interest. That it would cost us too much good will. Why was it ok to break a promise to those people?
 
When they no longer served our national interest. Let me ask you, do you think we should support them for more than political reasons? Do you think that we have some sort of biblical obligation? Because that reason is worse than any "we promised" reason around. We have promised a lot of things. We promised the Kurds we would provide air support after the first gulf war and we didn't. We decided it was not in our national interest. That it would cost us too much good will. Why was it ok to break a promise to those people?
No it wasn't OK to break our promise to the Kurds. Its a big reason why we had to do GWII.
 
It's entirely logical. Our national interests are at home, which is what our military was established to protect.

As for Israel, they can more than take care of themselves.
Since we have oil interests in the ME and supply our ally's enemies with cash, then we best stay close between our ally and their enemies.
 
There is oil elsewhere and we certainly don't try to curry favor with those places. Oil in areas far more stable.
Political conditions in the ME affect oil prices no matter where we get it from - even home fields. Oil prices spike, they spike everywhere, even if we aren't buying from the places causing the spike. If we were self sufficient, we could possibly ignore it, except, of course, for the affect spiking oil prices have on our allies - and not-so-much allies - as well as ourselves. Like it or not, we are part of a global market now, and when part of that market suffers, so does the rest, and, consequently, so do we.
 
Political conditions in the ME affect oil prices no matter where we get it from - even home fields. Oil prices spike, they spike everywhere, even if we aren't buying from the places causing the spike. If we were self sufficient, we could possibly ignore it, except, of course, for the affect spiking oil prices have on our allies - and not-so-much allies - as well as ourselves. Like it or not, we are part of a global market now, and when part of that market suffers, so does the rest, and, consequently, so do we.
And if we pulled the nipple out of the Israeli mouth and cut the umbliical cord it might actually ease things with the oil producing nations. Even if it doesn't, it is time to let Israel jump out of the nest and fly on its own. We can't be the sugar daddy anymore.
 
Political conditions in the ME affect oil prices no matter where we get it from - even home fields. Oil prices spike, they spike everywhere, even if we aren't buying from the places causing the spike. If we were self sufficient, we could possibly ignore it, except, of course, for the affect spiking oil prices have on our allies - and not-so-much allies - as well as ourselves. Like it or not, we are part of a global market now, and when part of that market suffers, so does the rest, and, consequently, so do we.
All true, except I'm not arguing on the side of cheap oil. While I would certainly love to have cheap gas, it has little to do with my argument in this particular case.
 
Iran was our enemy, as were the soviets. Why support them with oil money?
The Soviets no longer exist. And Iran has no reason to be our enemy. By opening open diplomatic ties to both countries we not only increase the chance of having a steady supply of oil but we also increase our ability stabily preside over an area that is in the end vital to our national interest. Instead of trying to polarize the regions why not trying to help them out and thus give them reason to help us?
 
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