Health care, bank stocks lead stock market lower

Superfreak said:
I am looking at the IBB for biotech (it is an index)... looks like I am wrong on Insurance, while they did get hammered, they have since come all the way back and more... KIE is an insurance index
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Since insurance companies just gained millions of new customers it would be quite a statement on "investors" if their stocks were bottoming. Not that I put anything past those sheeple. But it would make the whole thing even funnier.
 
Darla said:
Well, we are talking about people having health care or not having health care. So even if what you say were true, I really wouldn't care. Investors aren't running this country.

And as far as not buying the CBO numbers there's a reason I haven't commented on that. I buy them.
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Fine. But if the CBO is wrong, and investors are right, and investors continue to not invest, there will be another crash. And the country will lose more money, go into more debt, and basically become 3rd world for awhile. And then it won't be able to support this law, or a lot of other things.

Does anyone remember Russians outside of bakeries with wheelbarrows full of money to buy a loaf of bread?
 
Onceler said:
Fine. But if the CBO is wrong, and investors are right, and investors continue to not invest, there will be another crash. And the country will lose more money, go into more debt, and basically become 3rd world for awhile. And then it won't be able to support this law, or a lot of other things.

Does anyone remember Russians outside of bakeries with wheelbarrows full of money to buy a loaf of bread?
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Onceler, this is not going to happen. This is nothing more than a version of the Going Galt fantasy. This will not happen. Seriously worry about something else, because there is zero chance of investors halting investing.
 
Onceler said:
Oooh - a zinger!

Again - just presenting facts. Clearly, investors aren't happy. And clearly, healthcare/insurance execs are.
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You aren't presenting facts at all. You are ascribing to the market your personal feelings in an effort to validate your personal view even though it makes no fucking sense whatsoever.
 
Darla said:
Onceler, this is not going to happen. This is nothing more than a version of the Going Galt fantasy. This will not happen. Seriously worry about something else, because there is zero chance of investors halting investing.
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I disagree w/ the last part, but you're general sentiments are correct. I'm being too gloomy about it. I've been hanging out with a bunch of doomers who know a lot more about economics than I do; and they're liberal doomers to boot.

But, I'm trying to see the silver lining today. Like you said, a lot of people will be covered now, which is an excellent thing. And conservatives are sad, which isn't a bad thing.

Just hoping the CBO is right, and the doomers I hang with are wrong.
 
Onceler said:
Fine. But if the CBO is wrong, and investors are right, and investors continue to not invest, there will be another crash. And the country will lose more money, go into more debt, and basically become 3rd world for awhile. And then it won't be able to support this law, or a lot of other things.

Does anyone remember Russians outside of bakeries with wheelbarrows full of money to buy a loaf of bread?
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Jesus lord almighty.

If you want to see what the market thinks of the impact of the bill on the healthcare industry you should probably not focus on the five hour period since the Supreme Court did nothing. Just a thought.
 
Onceler said:
Fine. But if the CBO is wrong, and investors are right, and investors continue to not invest, there will be another crash. And the country will lose more money, go into more debt, and basically become 3rd world for awhile. And then it won't be able to support this law, or a lot of other things.

Does anyone remember Russians outside of bakeries with wheelbarrows full of money to buy a loaf of bread?
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I do. I also remember a pharmacist in Greece who wasn't going to get his retirement. I mean, I want to look at this AHC act as a good thing because people are going to get coverage as they should and i like that, but I can't help but look around the world at the similar problems of other nations and then we pile this on top of what we already have. Scary...
 
leaningright said:
I do. I also remember a pharmacist in Greece who wasn't going to get his retirement. I mean, I want to look at this AHC act as a good thing because people are going to get coverage as they should and i like that, but I can't help but look around the world at the similar problems of other nations and then we pile this on top of what we already have. Scary...
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Well, we do have the corruption factor, I think that is what sunk Greece and what will sink us, also, but corporations will have their cheap labor!
 
Onceler said:
I disagree w/ the last part, but you're general sentiments are correct. I'm being too gloomy about it. I've been hanging out with a bunch of doomers who know a lot more about economics than I do; and they're liberal doomers to boot.

But, I'm trying to see the silver lining today. Like you said, a lot of people will be covered now, which is an excellent thing. And conservatives are sad, which isn't a bad thing.

Just hoping the CBO is right, and the doomers I hang with are wrong.
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Onceler I think you may have been hanging out with a bunch of SF's who are telling you they know more about economics than you do! Your problem might be that you have no experience being a woman. See, I have learned through painful experience that men talk a lot of shit but basically know nothing about nothing and I know more than most of them, and when I want something done, I better do it myself!

Me and you need to hang out and I will have you cheered up in like 20 minutes. Too bad you are not on LI I would have told you to meet me for some bikini martinis and a chopped salad which is what i had for lunch. You would be totally fine right now.
 
General Buck Turgidson said:
Jesus lord almighty.

If you want to see what the market thinks of the impact of the bill on the healthcare industry you should probably not focus on the five hour period since the Supreme Court did nothing. Just a thought.
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Not true... because if it was the perception of the market that the individual mandate would be repealed, then that factor would then be priced out of the market once proven wrong.
 
General Buck Turgidson said:
Jesus lord almighty.

If you want to see what the market thinks of the impact of the bill on the healthcare industry you should probably not focus on the five hour period since the Supreme Court did nothing. Just a thought.
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We've had the same conversations over & over again about things like this and Social Security.

I'm a progressive. But progresivism & liberalism is self-defeating if it isn't practical. The way you talk about money & the budget is incomprehensible to me. It's like living in a household where the HOH just lost his job, we're close to a year late on the mortgage payments, the bank & creditors are calling every day, and people are talking about getting a new car & where we're going out to dinner tonight.

It's such a disconnect, and it's one thing I really have a hard time with when it comes to progressive thought in this country. Clinton had it right - we need a smaller, smarter gov't. If a large, unpredictable program is implemented, make an honest effort to pay for it through cost-cutting efforts and fiscal responsibility.

The latter does not have to be counter-intuitive to progressive ideals.
 
Superfreak said:
Not true... because if it was the perception of the market that the individual mandate would be repealed, then that factor would then be priced out of the market once proven wrong.
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Actually, it is true. What you say is true, too, but it isn't in conflict with what I said.
 
Onceler said:
We've had the same conversations over & over again about things like this and Social Security.

I'm a progressive. But progresivism & liberalism is self-defeating if it isn't practical. The way you talk about money & the budget is incomprehensible to me. It's like living in a household where the HOH just lost his job, we're close to a year late on the mortgage payments, the bank & creditors are calling every day, and people are talking about getting a new car & where we're going out to dinner tonight.

It's such a disconnect, and it's one thing I really have a hard time with when it comes to progressive thought in this country. Clinton had it right - we need a smaller, smarter gov't. If a large, unpredictable program is implemented, make an honest effort to pay for it through cost-cutting efforts and fiscal responsibility.

The latter does not have to be counter-intuitive to progressive ideals.
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But the ACA brings in more revenue than it spends. It's an honest effort to pay for it and you just dismiss it out of hand because.
 
General Buck Turgidson said:
Actually, it is true. What you say is true, too, but it isn't in conflict with what I said.
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While I understand your point, it still is not correct. The market would have priced in the expectation, not the current situation. That is what is crushing biotech today. They priced in the repeal and now it is coming back out.
 
Darla said:
Onceler I think you may have been hanging out with a bunch of SF's who are telling you they know more about economics than you do! Your problem might be that you have no experience being a woman. See, I have learned through painful experience that men talk a lot of shit but basically know nothing about nothing and I know more than most of them, and when I want something done, I better do it myself!

Me and you need to hang out and I will have you cheered up in like 20 minutes. Too bad you are not on LI I would have told you to meet me for some bikini martinis and a chopped salad which is what i had for lunch. You would be totally fine right now.
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Do you & your friends still do that drinking/float around the pool hang? That sounded like a good hang. I'd be down w/ that hang.

You're right. The guys I hang with are actually more libbie than me, so they're not quite in SF's league - but they do have that misguided and pompous certainty that are his trademarks. I'm going to try to steer the conversation to lighter, more innocuous topics next time I get together w/ them.
 
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