Hate crime or self defense?

Hate crime or self defense?

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Legion said:



The Georgia Bureau of Investigation is now investigating the Feb. 23 shooting death of Ahmaud Arbery, which followed a daytime confrontation with an armed father and son on a neighborhood street in southern Glynn County.

In a brief tweet released late Tuesday night, the GBI said it is investigating the fatal shooting at the request of Liberty County District Attorney Tom Durden.

Durden, who represents the Atlantic Judicial Circuit, announced on Tuesday that he has asked a Glynn County grand jury to consider criminal charges against Travis McMichael, 34, and his father, Gregory McMichael, 64.

The two armed men pursued Arbery for a block in a pickup truck inside the Satilla Shores community, according to a Glynn County police report.

Travis McMichael stepped out of the truck with a shotgun and confronted Arbery, according to the report.

Recently released video supports this account.

A struggle ensued for possession of the gun.

McMichael fired the shotgun three times.

Arbery, 25, stumbled to the street after the third shot and died on the scene.

Gregory McMichael told police he saw Arbery running down the street and suspected him of burglary. He said he went inside the home and called to his son, Travis.

Gregory McMichael grabbed a .357 caliber handgun and Travis McMichael took the shotgun, according to the police report. They hopped in a pickup truck and pursued Arbery, the report said.

The first 911 caller told the dispatcher at 1:09 p.m. that Arbery had stepped inside an open home under construction, then stepped back out and started running down the road, according to 911 tapes.

A second 911 caller at 1:14 p.m.: “There’s a black male running down the road,” according to 911 tapes.

In a short statement released at 10:20 p.m. Tuesday, the GBI said only that it is investigating the shooting at the request of DA Durden.

Arbery’s parents held a video press conference Wednesday morning with their respective lawyers, who called for the immediate arrests of the McMichael men, as well as one other man who they say played a role in the shooting. Attorneys Lee Merritt and Benjamin Crump also suggested the case would be better served on the federal level and treated as a hate crime.




https://thebrunswicknews.com/news/local_news/gbi-now-investigating-shooting-death-of-ahmaud-arbery/article_29b78984-a9ae-552a-90ac-6386052d8440.html
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We're either one of these two people involved the police officers?
 
Legion said:
No. Is that relevant?
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If they were yes it would be. Police have a duty to pursue. But if they were ordinary citizens then they have no duty to pursue.

I saw a mention earlier in the thread then it was a police officer involved.

further shooting someone who is trying to grab an officer's gun is defense of a third party and that is justified.

Police have to confront people that is their job. Non police citizens do not. and they're not justified in chasing someone down getting into an altercation and then killing them.
 
Bolding added for emphasis:

Legion said:
By WTOC Staff | May 7, 2020 at 8:15 PM EDT - Updated May 8 at 2:58 PM

GLYNN COUNTY, Ga. (WTOC) - An update on charges was provided in magistrate court on Friday. Travis is charged with felony murder and aggravated assault. Gregory is charged with party to felony murder and party to an aggravated assault.

Back in February, 25-year-old Arbery was shot and killed in his own Brunswick neighborhood. Police reports say he was shot by a man, now identified as Travis McMichael, who believed Arbery was a burglar after a string of break-ins in the area.

The report says Gregory McMichael and his son, Travis, chased Arbery in a truck and the men claim the son shot Arbery in self-defense.

Arbery's family said he was out for a jog when he was shot and did nothing wrong.

The case has gotten national attention after the release of the video showing the controversial shooting.

In the video, Arbery is seen running behind a truck that is stopped.

  • One man is outside of the truck on the driver’s side holding a shotgun and another man is in the bed of the truck with a handgun.
  • Arbery runs around the passenger side of the truck and then in front of the truck.
  • Arbery and the man outside of the truck are then seen struggling.
  • Three shots are fired.
  • Arbery collapses and the video ends.
GBI held a news conference Friday at 9 a.m. in Brunswick to provide further details on the case and arrests.

Hinesville District Attorney Tom Durden made the decision Tuesday, May 5, that he thought the case should go to a grand jury after he was requested to review the case.

Durden is the third prosecutor to handle the case.

The Brunswick prosecutor recused herself immediately given the McMichaels’ connection to her office.

Gregory worked at the Glynn County Police Department in the 80s and spent more than two decades as an investigator with the Brunswick DA.

A second prosecutor, Waycross Judicial Circuit District Attorney George Barnhill, recused himself in early April.

The recusal letter from Barnhill provides more background details in the shooting of Arbery.

Barnhill wrote to the state attorney general that his son and Gregory McMichael had helped with a previous prosecution of Arbery.

It is not known if Gregory McMichael remembered or recognized Arbery at the time of the incident.

In the letter, Barnhill states that Arbery had a juvenile and felony record, as well as mentions Arbery’s family members that had a criminal history.



"Dear Ms Crittendon and McGowan:

Thank you again for emailing back. This is a case without any law enforcement warrants. I agreed to take the file from Jackie Johnson, the District Attorney in Glynn County, for review to see if it justified and arrest and/or presentation to a Glynn County Grand Jury.

Greg McMichael, a party/ witness in the matter, retired from law enforcement then worked at her office as an investigator for several years up until re-retiring about 10 months ago. His son, whom I have never met and do not know, is the shooter in this case. Ahmaud Arbery was shot and died in this confrontation.

Upon taking the case, my office began gathering the array of materials one normally gathers. My Chief Victim Assistant, Tammy Horlock, talked several times with Mr Arbery's family; I spoke to the mother once; Senior ADA Michelle McIntire was monitoring the collection of information through Capt. Tom Jump GPD. We had told the family it would take a month to 6 weeks to get the autopsy report. They apparently did not believe us. Note: Ms McIntire in my office received the autopsy April 2nd. I know they called the Attorney General Office sometime during this time.

My son works as an Assistant District Attorney for Jackie Johnson. Unknown to Jackie and me until about 3-4 weeks ago, he had handled a previous felony probation revocation and pleading Ahmaud Arbery to a felony in her Glynn County Office.

A local 'rabble rouser' has taken up this cause and begun publishing wild and factually incorrect and legally wrong accusations on Facebook and other social media formats calling for marches and physical affronts be made against the McMichaels at their homes, and my son's home in Brunswick etc.. . To date I have seen no direct connection between the 'rouser' and the family other than their increased calls for my office to be removed, that I must be biased.

This family are not strangers to the local criminal justice system. From best we can tell, Ahmauds older brother has gone to prison in the past and is currently in the Glynn jail, without bond, awaiting new felony prosecution. It also appears a cousin has been prosecuted by DA Johnson's office. Ahmaud, the deceased, had a juvenile and adult felony record.

In that regard, given the connection between myself and my son, and my son having worked with Greg McMichael for several years, and now known that he and Greg McMichael both helped with the previous prosecution of Arbery; I believe it is in the best interest of justice to recuse both myself and my office from this particular investigation.

In doing so I request another District Attorney be appointed to review the file and give advice to the Glynn County Police Department and determine whether there is anything justifying a presentation to a Glynn County Grand Jury.

I believe we have the majority of the information at our office.

There is a decent cell phone video of the entire shooting incident, also video of Arbery burglarizing a home immediately preceding the chase and confrontation.

We have a witness list and have done research we would include with the file to be available for the new prosecutor's use if desired.

Thank you for your help in this matter

George E Barnhill

District Attorney

Waycross Judicial Circuit"


https://www.wbtv.com/2020/05/07/gbi-men-charged-with-murder-ahmaud-arbery/
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Legion said:
Asked and answered. Do I need to ask a moderator to remove you to stop your trolling?
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In post number 128 you posted something published by WOTC which claims that Gregory McMichael was a police officer in the 1980s.

Now he could be retired he could have been fired or dismissed I don't know that's why I'm asking you and you haven't said either way.

If you wish to report this to a moderator then be my guest. If you consider it trolling to question you about conflicting things then that's the improper use of the word trolling.
 
Legion said:
You do know that.





How, exactly, have I allegedly " presented this dishonestly"?

I'll understand if you can't explain, of course.
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With the way you presented the pole you asked if it's a hate crime self-defense or other whether it's deemed a hate crime or not will be determined in the trial. You didn't ask if it was a murder.

This is a loaded question, because it requires me to First accept that Gregory McMichael shot this man because he hated black people. There is no evidence whatsoever of that.

Loaded questions are dishonest.
 
Arks&sparka said:
In post number 128 you posted something published by WOTC which claims that Gregory McMichael was a police officer in the 1980s.
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Was and is are different.

Arks&sparka said:
Now he could be retired you could have been fired or dismissed I don't know that's why I'm asking you and you haven't said either way.
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Yes, I have. Here it is again:

Arks&sparka said:
Were any of these people involved the police officers?
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See the word "no"?

Legion said:
No. Is that relevant?
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Repeatedly asking a question that's already been answered after having been told multiple times that it's been asked and answered is trolling.
 
Arks&sparka said:
I know that you claimed that. But I don't know if it's true or not.
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So you think that one of both of the accused are currently police officers, despite this post?

Legion said:
Captain Tom Jump
Glynn County Police Department
Investigation Division
157 Public Safety Blvd.
Brunswick , GA 31525
Email: tjump@ glynncounty-ga.gov

Ref: Glynn County , The Shooting death of Ahmaud Arbery , Feb 23rd , 2020

Dear Captain Jump:

My office received the Arbery autopsy report yesterday and have reviewed it yesterday and this morning. We were waiting on this important evidentiary article before finalizing our opinions.

However, since we were initially requested to handle the case the victim's mother has clearly expressed she wants myself and my office off the case. She sees a conflict in that my son works in the Brunswick District Attorney's Office where Greg McMichael retired sometime ago. She believes there are kinships between the parties [there are not and has made other unfounded allegations of bias[es]. As such, I believe it is better for my office to step out and am going to recuse myself and the Assistants working for me from handling the case.

I am contacting the Georgia Attorney General Office and seeking their assistance in finding another District Attorney in the State to handle the further evaluation for prosecution this case. That is, to determine whether there is sufficient evidence on which to make a Grand Jury presentation or not.

Given the Governor's current shelter in place order and Justice Melton's Judicial Emergency Order; I cannot venture a guess as to when they will move on this request, and once another is found; when that District Attorney will have the staff available to review this case file. I hope for all involved it will move along as quickly as possible.

After talking by telephone with you yesterday , I appreciate there is immediate pressure on your department as to the issue of Arrest”. Since I have already given you an initial opinion the day after the shooting, I feel I can still comment on this limited issue.

First: I am the current elected District Attorney for the Waycross Circuit, I have worked as a criminal prosecutor for some 36 years. As an Assistant District Attorney in Waycross and Brunswick, as Chief Assistant in Waycross for 20 years and served as the District Attorney the last 5 years ; I have been actively involved in over 100 murder cases and assisted other prosecutors with at least 100 more. I have no idea how many Aggravated Assault cases involving gunshots and wounds of all types; Plus I have attended countless schools, classes and seminars on criminal prosecution and criminal acts and evidence.

Myself and one of my Senior Trial Attorneys have reviewed the evidence extensively and concur on all points.

Second; As to the case at hand: It is my professional belief the autopsy confirms what we had already viewed as shown in the video tape, with the photographs & from the witness statements taken immediately at the scene. The autopsy supports the initial opinion we gave you on February 24th , 2020 at the briefing room in the Glynn County Police Department after reviewing the evidence you had at that time.

We do not see grounds for an arrest of any of the three parties.

Third; It appears Travis McMichael, Greg McMichael, and Bryan William were following, in pursuit burglary suspect, with solid firsthand probable cause, in their neighborhood, and asking/telling him to stop. It appears their intent was to stop and hold this criminal suspect until law enforcement arrived.

Under Georgia Law this is perfectly legal. OCGA 17 -4 -60: A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge . If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.”

Fourth: It clearly appears Travis McMichael and Greg McMichael had firearms being carried in an open fashion. The investigation shows neither of them to be convicted felons or under felony supervision, they were in a motor vehicle owned by Travis McMichael. Under Georgia Law this is legal open carry. OCGA 16- 11- 126) Any person who is not prohibited by law from possessing a handgun or long gun may have or carry on his or her person a weapon or long gun on his or her property or inside his or her home, motor vehicle, or place of business without a valid weapons carry license.
(b ) Any person who is not prohibited by law from possessing a handgun or long gun may have or carry on his or her person a long gun without a valid weapons carry license, provided that if the long gun is loaded, it shall only be carried in an open and fully exposed manner.”

Fifth: The video made by William Bryan clearly shows the shooting in real time. From said video it appears Ahmaud Arbery was running along the right side of the McMichael truck then abruptly turns 90 degrees to the left and attacks Travis McMichael who was standing at the front left corner of the truck . A brief skirmish ensues in which it appear Arbery strikes McMichael and appears to grab the shotgun and pull it from McMichael. The shot is through Arbery's right hand palm which is consistent with him grabbing and pulling the shotgun at the barrel tip, the 2nd and 3rd wounds are consistent with the struggle for the shotgun as depicted in the video , the angle of the 2nd shot with the rear of the buttstock being pushed away and down from the fight are also consistent with the upward angle of blood plume shown in the video and that McMichael was attempting to push the gun away from Arbery while Arbery was pulling it toward himself.

The 3rd shot too appears to be in a struggle over the gun. The angle of the shots and the video show this was from the beginning or almost immediately became-- a fight over the shotgun.

Given the fact Arbery initiated the fight, at the point Arbery grabbed the shotgun, under Georgia Law, McMichael was allowed to use deadly force to protect himself.

Just as importantly, while we know McMichael had his finger on the trigger, we do not know who caused the firings. Arbery would only had to pull the shotgun approximately 1/16th to 1/8th of one inch to fire weapon himself and in the height of an altercation this is entirely possible. Arbery's mental health records & prior convictions help explain his apparent aggressive nature and his possible thought pattern to attack an armed man.

OCGA 16 - 3-21 Use of Force in Defense, once confronted with a deadly force situation an individual is allowed to use deadly force to defend themselves or others OCGA 16 - 3- 23 . 1 Georgia' s No Duty to Retreat Law , an individual is not required to back away from or submit to an attack; OCGA 16 - 3- 24 [b ] The use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to prevent trespass on or other tortious or criminal interference with real property other than a habitation or personal property is not justified unless the person using such force reasonably believes that it is necessary to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

OCGA 16 - 3- 24 .2 A person properly and legally defending themselves is immune from prosecution.

For the above and foregoing reasons, it is our conclusion there is insufficient probable cause to issue arrest warrants at this time.

As to any further issues on whether to present this to a Glynn County Grand jury, that will have to wait for the next District Attorney s review . Please consider this an OPEN file until that decision is made and restrict the release of any information under Georgia Open Records Act requests.

Sincerely
George E . Barnhill
District Attorney
Waycross Judicial Circuit
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Legion said:
Was and is are different.
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this is true. If he is no longer a police officer then he didn't act appropriately.


Yes, I have. Here it is again:



See the word "no"?
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so you Claim.


Repeatedly asking a question that's already been answered after having been told multiple times that it's been asked and answered is trolling.
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Asking for details which is what I'm doing isn't.

I don't know if she's a police officer currently or not I don't know if he's fired or retired. That's why I asked.

You can simply say he's retired or he was fired or dispensed or he was a police officer and he isn't anymore. You don't have to know the reason why he's not anymore.

But this new information on asking you for. A simple clarification.

I'm not trying to troll you and I do apologize if it seems that way.
 
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