Happy Trayvon Martin Day

USFREEDOM911 said:
Martin left and was no longer able to be seen by Zimmerman, so how is Martin still feeling threatened?
Please show where Zimmerman attacked Martin, which would cause Martin needing to defend himself.
Click to expand...

Supposedly, he was no longer visible before Zimmerman left his vehicle and continued to follow. Again there is no reason that Trayvon was required to keep fleeing. You are claiming that if he returned or moved in the direction of Zimmerman then he cannot claim self defense. But you are not applying that same premise to Zimmerman who actually killed Martin.
 
Sir Digby Chicken Caesar said:
Supposedly, he was no longer visible before Zimmerman left his vehicle and continued to follow. Again there is no reason that Trayvon was required to keep fleeing. You are claiming that if he returned or moved in the direction of Zimmerman then he cannot claim self defense. But you are not applying that same premise to Zimmerman who actually killed Martin.
Click to expand...

You have yet to explain how Martin, who had fled and was no longer in sight, can claim any kind of defense of self; when he's the one who then decided to approach, confront Zimmerman, and then assault him.
By all attainable information, Zimmerman only followed Martin to see where he was headed and there is nothing to imply that he ever intended to apprehend Martin.

Legalzoom gives the following definition: "You have to prove it was immediate and there was no other option, making it necessary to fight back."

So would you care to show how Martin's well being was in immediate danger, with no other options, when all documented facts show that Zimmerman had no idea where Martin had fled to?
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
You have yet to explain how Martin, who had fled and was no longer in sight, can claim any kind of defense of self; when he's the one who then decided to approach, confront Zimmerman, and then assault him.
By all attainable information, Zimmerman only followed Martin to see where he was headed and there is nothing to imply that he ever intended to apprehend Martin.

Legalzoom gives the following definition: "You have to prove it was immediate and there was no other option, making it necessary to fight back."

So would you care to show how Martin's well being was in immediate danger, with no other options, when all documented facts show that Zimmerman had no idea where Martin had fled to?
Click to expand...

Zimmerman decided to approach Martin in his car and out of it. By your reasoning he cannot claim self defense. I agree, his claim is dubious.

There are no "documented facts" showing that Zimmerman did not spot Martin and approach him.

There is quite a bit to imply that he may have intended to apprehend Martin. He left his vehicle to follow Martin and expressed concern that Martin might get away.
 
Sir Digby Chicken Caesar said:
Zimmerman decided to approach Martin in his car and out of it. By your reasoning he cannot claim self defense. I agree, his claim is dubious.

There are no "documented facts" showing that Zimmerman did not spot Martin and approach him.

There is quite a bit to imply that he may have intended to apprehend Martin. He left his vehicle to follow Martin and expressed concern that Martin might get away.
Click to expand...

You really need to set your racist emotions aside, when you read a post; because I never said Zimmermans intent was to apprehend Martin, nor anywhere in his documented exchange with the dispatcher is anything even suggested.
You really are reaching now, in a really pathetic attempt to support your assertions.

The "dubious" claim is yours, with you trying to twist the facts to suit your opinion.

The facts are this:
Zimmerman followed Martin, when he fled, so that he could give the dispatcher the information.
Martin fled from Zimmerman and was able to elude Zimmerman enough for Zimmerman to lose sight of him.
Zimmerman told the dispatcher where to have the police meet with him and was returning to his car.
Martin approached Zimmerman, for no reason, and then assaulted him.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
You really need to set your racist emotions aside, when you read a post; because I never said Zimmermans intent was to apprehend Martin, nor anywhere in his documented exchange with the dispatcher is anything even suggested.
You really are reaching now, in a really pathetic attempt to support your assertions.

The "dubious" claim is yours, with you trying to twist the facts to suit your opinion.

The facts are this:
Zimmerman followed Martin, when he fled, so that he could give the dispatcher the information.
Martin fled from Zimmerman and was able to elude Zimmerman enough for Zimmerman to lose sight of him.
Zimmerman told the dispatcher where to have the police meet with him and was returning to his car.
Martin approached Zimmerman, for no reason, and then assaulted him.
Click to expand...

Yes, it was suggested when he he responded "yes" to the question of whether he was following Martin on foot and his frame of mind suggests he may have when he exclaimed "These assholes. They always get away."

As you clearly stated his numerous attempts to approach Martin disprove his claims of self defense.

You are lying in a desperate attempt to salvage your argument. It is not a known fact why Zimmerman followed Martin. Zimmerman did NOT tell the dispatcher where to have the police meet him. He told the dispatcher to have them call him because, apparently, he did not intend to return to his truck. There is absolutely NO PROOF that Martin ever approached Zimmerman or initatiated the struggle with him. Even Zimmerman's shaky claims disprove your lie that Martin approached for no reason, as Zimmerman has claimed Martin asked whether he had a problem or "why are you following me."
 
Last edited:
Taichiliberal said:
Originally Posted by USFREEDOM911
Whether someone feels that Zimmerman should or should not have been following Martin, has no bearing on what eventually occured; because once Zimmerman stopped trying to follow Martin, the situation changes.
Zimmerman is walking back to his car, he is no longer a threat to Martin (perceived or otherwise), and Martin confronting Zimmerman makes Martin the aggressor.
There are no wounds on Martin, other then an entrance wound that has been shown to have been fired at an upward angle (which is consitant from someone doing so, while being on the ground).
Zimmerman, on the other hand, shows numerous wounds; that were inflicted by being beaten, while laying on the ground.

Everything past this is nothing more then speculation by those who have already decided the outcome of this.
Click to expand...
The little fantasy you parrot here does not jibe with the original statements made by Zimmerman and the audio tape of his 911 call. by GZ's own account, Martin caught him tailing in the car, came up to the car, peered in the window and then ran away. Zimmerman was told it was NOT necessary to follow him further.

So why would Martin circle back to confront Zimmerman, who continued to travel in his car and then suddenly have to get out of his car to check street signs for directions.....weird that, given Zimmerman had been a self appointed neighborhood watcher with a history of reports to the 911.

Yes, there were marks on Martin that indicated a struggle...go back and check the evidence.

Bottom line, Zimmerman's story is dubious at best....enough for the local cop in charge to proceed to arrest and charge him before being countermanded by higher ups (who took an out-of-the-ordinary effort to do so on this particular case).
Click to expand...

Bump
 
Sir Digby Chicken Caesar said:
Yes, it was suggested when he he responded "yes" to the question of whether he was following Martin on foot and his frame of mind suggests he may have when he exclaimed "These assholes. They always get away."

As you clearly stated his numerous attempts to approach Martin disprove his claims of self defense.

You are lying in a desperate attempt to salvage your argument. It is not a known fact why Zimmerman followed Martin. Zimmerman did NOT tell the dispatcher where to have the police meet him. He told the dispatcher to have them call him because, apparently, he did not intend to return to his truck. There is absolutely NO PROOF that Martin ever approached Zimmerman or initatiated the struggle with him. Even Zimmerman's shaky claims disprove your lie that Martin approached for no reason, as Zimmerman has claimed Martin asked whether he had a problem or "why are you following me."
Click to expand...

It appears that he was referring to the idea that the "criminals" get away; because they flee like cockroachs, to avoid identification.
Nothing at all suggests apprehension by Zimmerman.

You keep making references to "repeatedly" and "numerous", while blindly ignoring that this was one continual attempt to see where Martin had fled to.

Now you lie; because Zimmerman was trying to find a spot where the Police could meet him and was trying to decided if it should be the mail boxes, or his vehicle; especially since he had no idea how long it was going to take for them to arrive.
And he stated specifically:

911 dispatcher: Alright, where are you going to meet with them at?

Zimmerman: Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes you’ll see my truck.

And then after another short exchange:

911 dispatcher: OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then?

Zimmerman: Yeah, that’s fine.

How did you think he was going to get to the mailboxes, since they were back in the direction he had come from?

Bottoom line, even if you can't accept it, is that Zimmerman no longer had any idea of where Martin was, Zimmerman was returning from where this started to meet the cops, Martin initiated contact with Zimmerman and then assaulted him.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
It appears that he was referring to the idea that the "criminals" get away; because they flee like cockroachs, to avoid identification.
Nothing at all suggests apprehension by Zimmerman.

You keep making references to "repeatedly" and "numerous", while blindly ignoring that this was one continual attempt to see where Martin had fled to.

Now you lie; because Zimmerman was trying to find a spot where the Police could meet him and was trying to decided if it should be the mail boxes, or his vehicle; especially since he had no idea how long it was going to take for them to arrive.
And he stated specifically:

911 dispatcher: Alright, where are you going to meet with them at?

Zimmerman: Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes you’ll see my truck.

And then after another short exchange:

911 dispatcher: OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then?

Zimmerman: Yeah, that’s fine.

How did you think he was going to get to the mailboxes, since they were back in the direction he had come from?

Bottoom line, even if you can't accept it, is that Zimmerman no longer had any idea of where Martin was, Zimmerman was returning from where this started to meet the cops, Martin initiated contact with Zimmerman and then assaulted him.
Click to expand...

Reality check....note the time line:

http://phoebe53.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/zimmerman-911-call-transcript-trayvon-martin/
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
It appears that he was referring to the idea that the "criminals" get away; because they flee like cockroachs, to avoid identification.
Nothing at all suggests apprehension by Zimmerman.

You keep making references to "repeatedly" and "numerous", while blindly ignoring that this was one continual attempt to see where Martin had fled to.

Now you lie; because Zimmerman was trying to find a spot where the Police could meet him and was trying to decided if it should be the mail boxes, or his vehicle; especially since he had no idea how long it was going to take for them to arrive.
And he stated specifically:



911 dispatcher: Alright, where are you going to meet with them at?

Zimmerman: Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes you’ll see my truck.

And then after another short exchange:

911 dispatcher: OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then?

Zimmerman: Yeah, that’s fine.

How did you think he was going to get to the mailboxes, since they were back in the direction he had come from?

Bottoom line, even if you can't accept it, is that Zimmerman no longer had any idea of where Martin was, Zimmerman was returning from where this started to meet the cops, Martin initiated contact with Zimmerman and then assaulted him.
Click to expand...

You are just embarassing yourself with the obvious attempts to deceive. Just a few seconds after that...

911 dispatcher:
OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42]
Zimmerman:
Yeah, that’s fine. [3:43]


911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, I’ll let them know you’ll meet them at …
Zimmerman:
Could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at? [3:49]
911 dispatcher:
OK, that’s no problem.
Zimmerman:
My number … you’ve got it?
911 dispatcher:
Yeah, I’ve got it. 435-2400?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, you got it.
911 dispatcher:
OK, no problem. I’ll let them know to call you when they’re in the area. [4:02]
Zimmerman:
Thanks.
911 dispatcher:
You’re welcome.
Call ends 4:07
....

There is nothing wrong with my phrasing. He continued to pursue Martin in and out of his car and likely after the dispatcher told him it was not necessary.

When he said "these assholes always get away" he clearly meant to include Martin. It shows that he may have been unwilling to wait for the police to arrive. Couple it with the fact that his words at the end of the call make it appear that he did not seem to be returning to his truck and it looks pretty bad.
 
Sir Digby Chicken Caesar said:
You are just embarassing yourself with the obvious attempts to deceive. Just a few seconds after that...

911 dispatcher:
OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42]
Zimmerman:
Yeah, that’s fine. [3:43]


911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, I’ll let them know you’ll meet them at …
Zimmerman:
Could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at? [3:49]
911 dispatcher:
OK, that’s no problem.
Zimmerman:
My number … you’ve got it?
911 dispatcher:
Yeah, I’ve got it. 435-2400?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, you got it.
911 dispatcher:
OK, no problem. I’ll let them know to call you when they’re in the area. [4:02]
Zimmerman:
Thanks.
911 dispatcher:
You’re welcome.
Call ends 4:07
....

There is nothing wrong with my phrasing. He continued to pursue Martin in and out of his car and likely after the dispatcher told him it was not necessary.

When he said "these assholes always get away" he clearly meant to include Martin. It shows that he may have been unwilling to wait for the police to arrive. Couple it with the fact that his words at the end of the call make it appear that he did not seem to be returning to his truck and it looks pretty bad.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you're reading into it; but please give me your racist view.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
I'm not sure what you're reading into it; but please give me your racist view.
Click to expand...

Do you not see black text?

911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, I’ll let them know you’ll meet them at …
Zimmerman:
Could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at? [3:49]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top