Well stated...Happy Independence Day!
Happy Fourth of July
- Thread starter leaningright
- Start date
Well stated...Happy Independence Day!
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
I'm talking about a long line of people that we've slaughtered .. and one doesn't have to go back hundreds of years to find the truth of that.
Right, we slaughter innocent people with no power to keep from being 'conquered.' :0)
You're free to hold whatever view you choose about this country. Free to believe whatever history you choose to believe.
But patriotism/emotion doesn't change history nor facts .. and neither Rome nor China justifies the horrors of true American history.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
I think the Founders were brilliant .. the deists that they were.
yes we did. Lets take you 2 main issues. Slavery and slaughering the poor indians.
If there is no slavery there is no cotton. If there is no cotton (and other crops) the US would have had almost no industries or wealth. Without conquering our neighbors the US would be restricted to 13 colonies. Somebody else would have filled up the rest of the continent. Most likely the indians, mexicans, or canadians.
Your moralist policies would have led the US to become a third world country. An extremely well mannered and good country but a third world one nonetheless.
Of course without the manufacturing, financial, and population base of the US we would not have the impact we had on ww1 and ww2.
The standards you set are only met by nations who get conquered by others.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
Slaves weren't needed for America to profit from cotton. The South wanted slaves because they didn't have to pay them, and because they were racists and monsters without compassion. They wanted people they could dominate.
Without slaves the South would have suffered, but America would still grow and prosper.
Even after slavery was abolished the hate, oppression, and suffering of Black people continued for hundreds of years. We've been in this country for over 400 years, yet only been relatively free for 52 years. The 'economic' reasons for hate and evil is just bullshit.
What America did to Native Americans is a horror story bar none .. but the evil didn't stop there.
We've dreamed up bullshit reasons to mass-murder countless innocent people. Over a million in Vietnam because of the fake Gulf of Tonkin story and some bullshit called 'the Domino Theory' .. that never happened.
Countless dead Iraqis because of non-existent WMD. Bullshit .. we did it for the money. War profiteering is what we're good at.
We destroyed Libya without batting an eye .. and used AL QUEDA to do it. Destroyed it for profit.
The notion that we must murder and oppress our way to glory is mindboggling ridiculous. Even if that were true, it wouldn't change what we are .. murderers for profit.
Have bombs will travel.
Buckly J. Ewer
Racism Whistleblower
Sookie thinks slavery made America great...
Guess where Sookie's mind goes when Trump says "Lets Make America Great Again."
Cancel 2018.2
Oh, hi
Unfortunately, you're wrong, as usual.
---
Understanding both how extraordinarily profitable cotton was and how interconnected and overlapping were the economies of the cotton plantation, the Northern banking industry, New England textile factories and a huge proportion of the economy of Great Britain helps us to understand why it was something of a miracle that slavery was finally abolished in this country at all.
Let me try to break this down quickly, since it is so fascinating:
Let’s start with the value of the slave population. Steven Deyle shows that in 1860, the value of the slaves was “roughly three times greater than the total amount invested in banks,” and it was “equal to about seven times the total value of all currency in circulation in the country, three times the value of the entire livestock population, twelve times the value of the entire U.S. cotton crop and forty-eight times the total expenditure of the federal government that year.” As mentioned here in a previous column, the invention of the cotton gin greatly increased the productivity of cotton harvesting by slaves. This resulted in dramatically higher profits for planters, which in turn led to a seemingly insatiable increase in the demand for more slaves, in a savage, brutal and vicious cycle.
Now, the value of cotton: Slave-produced cotton “brought commercial ascendancy to New York City, was the driving force for territorial expansion in the Old Southwest and fostered trade between Europe and the United States,” according to Gene Dattel. In fact, cotton productivity, no doubt due to the sharecropping system that replaced slavery, remained central to the American economy for a very long time: “Cotton was the leading American export from 1803 to 1937.”
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/african-americans-many-rivers-to-cross/history/why-was-cotton-king/
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
Unfortunately, you're wrong, as usual.
---
Understanding both how extraordinarily profitable cotton was and how interconnected and overlapping were the economies of the cotton plantation, the Northern banking industry, New England textile factories and a huge proportion of the economy of Great Britain helps us to understand why it was something of a miracle that slavery was finally abolished in this country at all.
Let me try to break this down quickly, since it is so fascinating:
Let’s start with the value of the slave population. Steven Deyle shows that in 1860, the value of the slaves was “roughly three times greater than the total amount invested in banks,” and it was “equal to about seven times the total value of all currency in circulation in the country, three times the value of the entire livestock population, twelve times the value of the entire U.S. cotton crop and forty-eight times the total expenditure of the federal government that year.” As mentioned here in a previous column, the invention of the cotton gin greatly increased the productivity of cotton harvesting by slaves. This resulted in dramatically higher profits for planters, which in turn led to a seemingly insatiable increase in the demand for more slaves, in a savage, brutal and vicious cycle.
Now, the value of cotton: Slave-produced cotton “brought commercial ascendancy to New York City, was the driving force for territorial expansion in the Old Southwest and fostered trade between Europe and the United States,” according to Gene Dattel. In fact, cotton productivity, no doubt due to the sharecropping system that replaced slavery, remained central to the American economy for a very long time: “Cotton was the leading American export from 1803 to 1937.”
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/african-americans-many-rivers-to-cross/history/why-was-cotton-king/
Your argument is that we needed to murder, rape, and oppress people so we could be 'great.'
If you believe that bullshit .. I'm happy for you.
"The slave culture in America was so powerful, that it in some ways overpowered what was most capitalistically viable at the time. Slaves are a decent investment when there is a shortage of labor, but when there isn’t, well, they have a pretty expensive upkeep. They have no buying power. Don’t pay taxes. And even though you can breed them, you have to wait a while before their children can actually work (clothe, feed, and shelter that child until that time). On top of all this, slaves themselves cost a shit ton (the price of a car). You have to clothe, feed, and house them even when they aren’t working. Then you gotta hire some people to look after them.
Economically, a better system for the plantation owners were the ones that formed after the civil war. The crop lien/share cropping/tenant farming systems.* That way you still get to exploit your workers, but they have to provide for themselves. Best of both worlds. With the institution of slavery growing each year in the south, it’s unlikely the south would turn to these systems (immediately) had it not been for the civil war. The culture of owning a slave was too engrained into their society. For in the south, owning a slave was a sign of prominence and wealth. Having a slave made owners feel powerful. Like mentioned in Fredrick Douglass` narrative, slavery corrupted anyone it touched, even the sweet Sophia Auld, who was so kind originally, but then turned cautious and spiteful of Fredrick.
A cheap labor force, that retains their freedom, accomplishes the same thing economically as a slave. These cheap wage laborers will still be taken advantage of and socially looked down upon, but they will still have some sense of freedom. What you don’t get with a cheap labor force that you do get with slaves, is the ego of being a “master”. Controlling people, as we see throughout history, is intoxicating. With a slave culture already present in the “New World” it was just the right mix of terrible to make the institution of slavery blossom throughout America.
“There are no necessary evils. There are only justifications for unnecessary evils”
https://timothyseiter.wordpress.com/2015/02/15/was-slavery-a-necessary-evil/
Cancel 2018.2
Oh, hi
I never made that argument. I merely proved your point was wrong and then you prove it again with your link above.
Try harder.
Try harder.
Cancel 2018.2
Oh, hi
I bet BAC doesn't care that Jews were also slaves, for much longer than Africans.
I bet he also doesn't acknowledge that fellow black Africans sold their brothers and sisters to the horror of slavery. May we can continue forward with free people of all colors and may no one need to sit in the back of the bus while being a free US citizen. That is my dream. I dream where we can finally get to the day when we don't look at pigment. MLK, jr. had that dream as well, but unfortunately, liberals don't want that dream to come true.
I bet he also doesn't acknowledge that fellow black Africans sold their brothers and sisters to the horror of slavery. May we can continue forward with free people of all colors and may no one need to sit in the back of the bus while being a free US citizen. That is my dream. I dream where we can finally get to the day when we don't look at pigment. MLK, jr. had that dream as well, but unfortunately, liberals don't want that dream to come true.
Airstrip One
Completely Effed
Daniel Webster bested Satan. Surely, you are but an insect, scurrying about, in the spectrum of his magnificent shadow.
Airstrip One
Completely Effed
There's always the hammer and popsicle, if that's your flavour. It suits the Welsh interests of JPP...
Airstrip One
Completely Effed
Then send all of the hate mail that your hands can ink-out.
USFREEDOM911
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
If the early Americans were so evil, what does that say about the Africans that enslaved and then sold their own countrymen?
USFREEDOM911
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
Spent part of the evening at our Daughters house and ate ribs, hotdogs, hamburgers, ranch style beans, Mexican rice, Carne Asada, chips with home made Salsa, potato salad, and then for desert, we had a cake with white frosting that had strawberries for the stripes and blueberries for the field of blue.
Then we went outside and set off what fireworks the AZ government will allow us.
Came home and just finished watching a TV feed of the Macy's firework display, from NY, and totally enjoyed all the Patriotic songs that were played.
GOD I LOVE THIS COUNTRY.
Then we went outside and set off what fireworks the AZ government will allow us.
Came home and just finished watching a TV feed of the Macy's firework display, from NY, and totally enjoyed all the Patriotic songs that were played.
GOD I LOVE THIS COUNTRY.
I wanted to respond to this yesterday but we were headed out the door to start our day of celebration. Sorry this is long but you motivated me to re-watch The Patriot, read the history on my great great grandfather and I thought a lot about this country. Past, present and future. I am an optimist. My wife sometimes can't stand it because she's more of a glass half empty type person.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. I feigned my displeasure about the phrase “off the reservation” offending my Native American heritage in another thread. The truth is I am not easily offended. I am 1/4 Choctaw and a whole bunch Great Britain. But the reality is, I am an American. A mutt. Proudly I am a citizen of the United Sates of America.
Yes, my ancestors were mistreated, even unjustly killed, some to the point of certain members of government and military trying to destroy entire races. My great great grandfather came here on the trail of tears. It was all wrong. So wrong. Nothing we can do will change that, though. My life is in the here and now. For me to succeed and be able to live my life I must live in this culture.
I remember my grandmother talking about her mom and dad telling her that the way of life they lived was over. She was going to live in the white man’s world. Grandma raised 11 children who were 1/2 Choctaw (she married an Irish man) and they were all successful. All of them were sent to school and most of them completed some sort of post secondary education. They assimilated into the culture of this nation. Some of them served in the armed forces. Two of them were high ranking in the tribal government…one still is.
We were raised to be proud of our Choctaw heritage but to get an education or trade and to succeed. I still do some things my Chahta ancestors did the way my Chahta ancestors did them.
Chahta were farmer folks. They farmed the land they were allotted here in Oklahoma. My grandmother taught my mother techniques which she taught to me.
From the land to the table much of what my grandmother taught my mother was passed on to me.
And food preservation was passed down as well. But not all was Chahta ways. My grandmother was learning herself in an ever changing world. And she taught my mom. And my mom taught me.
In the summer I raise and preserve food. In the fall I hunt.
We live and eat well. But I also have had to live according to the laws of my state and my country. I have had to educate myself, develop a marketable skill, find a job, show up for work, do the job. My grandmother taught us this is what you do. When I failed along the way, I didn't blame anyone, I got up and did it right the next time. To me this is the real recipe for success in this country. And the fact that I can maintain some aspects of my heritage and enjoy the benefits of living in this great land is wonderful.
E Pluribus Unum … Out of many, one. The original national motto of our country. I still love it. It matters not where you come from, your background, your mistakes (mostly) … in this country you can succeed. But I have been taught and I believe you must work according to the law and rules to find that success. This is the greatest country ever, IMO. And while things have been done wrong along the way there is still the belief …. at least with most of us, that you can be whatever to choose and work to be. You can achieve whatever you choose to work at to achieve. As they say, the sky is the limit.
Chahta sia hoke! Yes. But also…. Proud to be an American.
Buckly J. Ewer
Racism Whistleblower
Spent part of the evening at our Daughters house and ate ribs, hotdogs, hamburgers, ranch style beans, Mexican rice, Carne Asada, chips with home made Salsa, potato salad, and then for desert, we had a cake with white frosting that had strawberries for the stripes and blueberries for the field of blue.
Then we went outside and set off what fireworks the AZ government will allow us.
Came home and just finished watching a TV feed of the Macy's firework display, from NY, and totally enjoyed all the Patriotic songs that were played.
GOD I LOVE THIS COUNTRY.
You are fucking glutton.
Conspicuous over-eating is not patriotic...It is gross.
evince
Truthmatters
I wanted to respond to this yesterday but we were headed out the door to start our day of celebration. Sorry this is long but you motivated me to re-watch The Patriot, read the history on my great great grandfather and I thought a lot about this country. Past, present and future. I am an optimist. My wife sometimes can't stand it because she's more of a glass half empty type person.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. I feigned my displeasure about the phrase “off the reservation” offending my Native American heritage in another thread. The truth is I am not easily offended. I am 1/4 Choctaw and a whole bunch Great Britain. But the reality is, I am an American. A mutt. Proudly I am a citizen of the United Sates of America.
Yes, my ancestors were mistreated, even unjustly killed, some to the point of certain members of government and military trying to destroy entire races. My great great grandfather came here on the trail of tears. It was all wrong. So wrong. Nothing we can do will change that, though. My life is in the here and now. For me to succeed and be able to live my life I must live in this culture.
I remember my grandmother talking about her mom and dad telling her that the way of life they lived was over. She was going to live in the white man’s world. Grandma raised 11 children who were 1/2 Choctaw (she married an Irish man) and they were all successful. All of them were sent to school and most of them completed some sort of post secondary education. They assimilated into the culture of this nation. Some of them served in the armed forces. Two of them were high ranking in the tribal government…one still is.
We were raised to be proud of our Choctaw heritage but to get an education or trade and to succeed. I still do some things my Chahta ancestors did the way my Chahta ancestors did them.
Chahta were farmer folks. They farmed the land they were allotted here in Oklahoma. My grandmother taught my mother techniques which she taught to me.
From the land to the table much of what my grandmother taught my mother was passed on to me.
And food preservation was passed down as well. But not all was Chahta ways. My grandmother was learning herself in an ever changing world. And she taught my mom. And my mom taught me.
In the summer I raise and preserve food. In the fall I hunt.
We live and eat well. But I also have had to live according to the laws of my state and my country. I have had to educate myself, develop a marketable skill, find a job, show up for work, do the job. My grandmother taught us this is what you do. When I failed along the way, I didn't blame anyone, I got up and did it right the next time. To me this is the real recipe for success in this country. And the fact that I can maintain some aspects of my heritage and enjoy the benefits of living in this great land is wonderful.
E Pluribus Unum … Out of many, one. The original national motto of our country. I still love it. It matters not where you come from, your background, your mistakes (mostly) … in this country you can succeed. But I have been taught and I believe you must work according to the law and rules to find that success. This is the greatest country ever, IMO. And while things have been done wrong along the way there is still the belief …. at least with most of us, that you can be whatever to choose and work to be. You can achieve whatever you choose to work at to achieve. As they say, the sky is the limit.
Chahta sia hoke! Yes. But also…. Proud to be an American.
way cool dude
I bet you can imagine what it would feel like to have someone trash your claim of native roots simply because you LOOK too white
ask lizzy warren
cawacko
Well-known member
you mean lie about it? are you accusing LR of lying about his roots?