Hamas totally out-negotiated Trump

[Dutch Uncle]

I think the Palestinians, Christians and Jews who lived there would disagree, though no formal country it was still their homeland and it was taken from them.

Of course they would. The point being, as @Cypress stated, there was never a country called Palestine. They never had their own nation. They were always ruled by someone else. The Romans, the Ottomans, the Brits and, after all the Arab-Israeli Wars, the Israelis. "To the victor go the spoils".

To the victor belong the spoils - phrase meaning and origin

www.phrases.org.uk

To the victor belong the spoils​

In Reply to: Oh, those Democrats! posted by Acme on June 18, 2004

: : : During a Congressional debate in 1831 a New York senator, William L. Marcy, used the phrase "to the victor belong the spoils." This saying accurately described the spoils system of appointing government workers. Each time a new administration came into power thousands of public servants were discharged and members of the victorious political party took over their jobs.

: : "To the victor belong the spoils. In a war or other contest, the winner gets the booty. The proverb originated in the United States and was first used in 1832 by Senator William Learned Marcy (1786-1857) of New York. 'The victor gets the spoils' and 'To the victor go the spoils' are variations of the proverb." Senator Marcy was quoted as saying, in 1832, "They (Democrats) see nothing wrong in the rule that to the victor belong the spoils of the enemy." From Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings by Gregory Y. Titelman.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

You have to go back a few decades...

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Britain had a say in the UN taking up the issue based on their long standing preference and Zionist sympathies.

Yet the Brits ruled the territory, along with other former Ottoman lands, for how many decades? Same for the French.

What did it take for the Indians to free themselves from the British yoke of oppression?

 

[Truth Detector]

It was also the UN.

Most of what was the British mandate was the newly created nation of Jordan.

 

[Truth Detector]

No, even your own MAGA boyfriends on this thread just claimed this morning that this prisoner exchange was a trick, a ruse by Trump before the final offensive to annihilate resistance in Gaza.

Lie, lame and stupid. I don't think you can post without looking unhinged, stupid and lying.

 

[Truth Detector]

That’s what happens when you are hard wired by the military.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Then you know how many innocents suffer because of governments.

Yes. Governments are a necessary evil of modern society. The alternative is tribalism with wooden and stone weapons.

Human beings really are a pretty nasty species.

 

[Truth Detector]

My understanding is the Brits pretty much did walk away, and the UN stepped in with an ad hoc partition. I am no expert in Palestinians, but they have a right to continue to live in that area

Wrong.

No wonder you bloviate such stupid nonsense. Easy to look it up lazy dumbass.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Undoubtedly there are wrongly convicted Palestinians in Israeli prisons. I'm sure the Hamas justice system is even less fair than the Israeli justice system. However, I don't have enough expertise on the Israeli justice system to say what percentage of Palestinians are wrongly convicted.

All you really know is that you HATE Donald Trump with a deep and searing rage. His bringing about peace and getting the hostages released is a serious blow to the party. So you throw a temper tantrum in your soiled diaper - impotently cursing the universe for allowing peace.

Blessed is the Peacemaker, Donald Trump.

 

[Truth Detector]

The phrase "MAGA morons" explains it all.

Results count. Trump achieved a ceasefire where others failed. Partly due to timing, partly because he's a crazy asshole who others believe would go nuts if crossed.

It must suck going through life a deranged, unhinged, mentally challenged little man with severe TDS.

 

[Cypress]

You have to go back a few decades...

View attachment 62205

Britain had a say in the UN taking up the issue based on their long standing preference and Zionist sympathies.

You're right, Britain remained diplomatically involved

But after that bombing at the King David hotel, I seem to recall that the British military occupation of the Mandate unwound pretty rapidly. The British public did not want their army occupying what seemed to be a tinder box about to explode

 

[Truth Detector]

I think the Palestinians, Christians and Jews who lived there would disagree, though no formal country it was still their homeland and it was taken from them.

It wasn't taken from them. Why all the stupid Hamas lies? Most walked away in the belief from their leaders that Arabs would drive the Jews into the sea.

Israel still has a large population of prosperous Arabs who did not walk away and who even vote in their elections.

 

[Truth Detector]

I agree that Arab families had lived in that part of the Ottoman Empire for centuries.

There was a lot of displacement after World War 1. The ethnic Greeks in Turkey were forcibly removed and sent to Greece. The ethnic Turks in Greece were forcibly removed and sent to Turkey. Those families had been in their homes for generations.

Displacement is always tragic. But now it is almost 100 years later. The Greeks, Turks, and Palestinians who had those homes are all dead. There is no realistic chance of people returning to pre-World War 1 living conditions.

The only viable solution seems to be an independent Palestinian state in the West Bank.

The pre-WWI conditions would be the ottoman Empire ruled over by brutal Turks. DUH!

There never was peace in this part of the world. Only uneducated dunces bloviate such nonsense.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

You're right, Britain remained diplomatically involved

But after that bombing at the King David hotel, I seem to recall that the British military occupation of the Mandate unwound pretty rapidly. The British public did not want their army occupying what seemed to be a tinder box about to explode

...especially after the devastation of WWII.

After WWI, the US retreated into isolationism. Had we stayed involved, perhaps WWI Part Deux could have been averted. Woulda, coulda, and shoulda.

 

[Nomad]

You're right, Britain remained diplomatically involved

But after that bombing at the King David hotel, I seem to recall that the British military occupation of the Mandate unwound pretty rapidly. The British public did not want their army occupying what seemed to be a tinder box about to explode

Probably true, but after they withdrew I think their influence in the UN still played a large role in the decision to partition Palestine and basically hand it over to the Zionists who also might have had some sway.

 

[Cypress]

...especially after the devastation of WWII.

After WWI, the US retreated into isolationism. Had we stayed involved, perhaps WWI Part Deux could have been averted. Woulda, coulda, and shoulda.

Makes sense

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Probably true, but after they withdrew I think their influence in the UN still played a large role in the decision to partition Palestine and basically hand it over to the Zionists who also might have had some sway.

Why do you think they did that?

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Thank Allah that those thousands of dead children and women won't be fighting Israel, right?

As Sherman said about the civil war, so too it is equally true of Hamas attacking Israel. Israel returned the favor in spades, as the should have. Hamas chose war and Israel gave them all they wanted and more. Let Hamas rule the rubble that is Gaza and don't give them a nickel's worth of help doing it, I say.

 

[Nomad]

All you really know is that you HATE Donald Trump with a deep and searing rage. His bringing about peace and getting the hostages released is a serious blow to the party. So you throw a temper tantrum in your soiled diaper - impotently cursing the universe for allowing peace.

Blessed is the Peacemaker, Donald Trump.

Oh, get outta here, damned fool.

Trump asks for and DESERVES every bit of the ill will he brings upon himself because he is a major league ASSHOLE.

And everybody knows it.

Unlike President Obama who, even though he was a respectful and dignified statesman who did nothing to bring it upon himself, suffered the "deep and searing rage" of hatred and derision he got from the right.

You two-faced hypocrite buffoons have no room whatsoever to whine about the hatred directed at trump.

If anything, he deserves even more of it than he gets.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Yet today Vietnam is a peaceful, very prosperous nation. In stark contrast to Gaza.

Now, 50 years later. First they had to go through suffering under the Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China. The end of the Cold War changed all of that.

One interview I remember from the late 70s is with a Vietnamese store owner when asked about life under the Soviets. He said "They're like Americans without money." I thought it was funny because it rang true.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Yet we lost in VN when WE had a well-equipped army and air force and the VC had tunnels.

Both sides here believe fervently that they are fighting for survival.

We walked away from Vietnam. S. Vietnam later lost to the North when Democrats in Congress reneged on a written treaty promise to fund and supply S. Vietnam with arms and munitions. That we were ever involved to the extent we were was also entirely due to a Democrat.