Guilty until proven innocent

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Canceled.2014.1

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These confiscation procedures gall me to no end. The fact that these laws exist in the US is proof that we no longer enjoy the freedoms guaranteed by the US Constitution.

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/18241221/man-loses-22000-in-new-policing-for-profit-case

The man was pulled over in TN. The officer asked him if he had any large amounts of cash. The man said he had about $20k. The officer asked if he could search the car, and the driver said it was not a problem. The cash was confiscated because the lawmakers in TN assume if you have a large amount of cash you are up to no good.

State law requires that a judge sign off on the siezure. But the state sets it up so that hearing "shall be ex parte". In other words, the citizen's side of the story is not heard, only the officer's.


WTF? I know this is not new, but jeez.
 
asset forfeiture laws are one of the worst abominations/creations of manufactured law that is so unamerican it should have resulted in a full blown revolution, blood spilt in the streets and all.
 
WinterBorn said:
These confiscation procedures gall me to no end. The fact that these laws exist in the US is proof that we no longer enjoy the freedoms guaranteed by the US Constitution.

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/18241221/man-loses-22000-in-new-policing-for-profit-case

The man was pulled over in TN. The officer asked him if he had any large amounts of cash. The man said he had about $20k. The officer asked if he could search the car, and the driver said it was not a problem. The cash was confiscated because the lawmakers in TN assume if you have a large amount of cash you are up to no good.

State law requires that a judge sign off on the siezure. But the state sets it up so that hearing "shall be ex parte". In other words, the citizen's side of the story is not heard, only the officer's.


WTF? I know this is not new, but jeez.
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That's been going on for a long time. Texas is notorious for it.

Couple this with the reality that the United States is the greatest prison nation in human history. We far have far more prisoners than all the "totalitarian" nations that we like to point fingers at.

Freedom is relative .. when you exist in the Matrix.
 
NewsChannel 5 Investigates noted, "But you had no proof that money was being used for drug trafficking, correct? No proof?"

"And he couldn't prove it was legitimate," Bates insisted.

Bates is part of a system that, NewsChannel 5 Investigates has discovered, gives Tennessee police agencies the incentive to take cash off of out-of-state drivers. If they don't come back to fight for their money, the agency gets to keep it all.

"This is a taking without due process," said Union City attorney John Miles.
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so now you're assumed to be guilty..drug laws of course.
Seizures are very profitable, take a lot os speed traps to generate that cash, this is much more convenient.
 
WinterBorn said:
These confiscation procedures gall me to no end. The fact that these laws exist in the US is proof that we no longer enjoy the freedoms guaranteed by the US Constitution.

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/18241221/man-loses-22000-in-new-policing-for-profit-case

The man was pulled over in TN. The officer asked him if he had any large amounts of cash. The man said he had about $20k. The officer asked if he could search the car, and the driver said it was not a problem. The cash was confiscated because the lawmakers in TN assume if you have a large amount of cash you are up to no good.

State law requires that a judge sign off on the siezure. But the state sets it up so that hearing "shall be ex parte". In other words, the citizen's side of the story is not heard, only the officer's.


WTF? I know this is not new, but jeez.
Click to expand...

WOW!! That is bizarre! I guess I'll cross Nashville off my bucket list. :(
 
the thing to remember about asset forfeiture laws is that YOU (the human) are not charged with a crime, but the property (cash, house, car, etc) is charged with a crime and the justice system is then turned on it's head by forcing YOU to prove the property is not a result of the crime. An endeavor which usually costs as much or more than it is worth to retain ownership of the property.
 
WinterBorn said:
These confiscation procedures gall me to no end. The fact that these laws exist in the US is proof that we no longer enjoy the freedoms guaranteed by the US Constitution.

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/18241221/man-loses-22000-in-new-policing-for-profit-case

The man was pulled over in TN. The officer asked him if he had any large amounts of cash. The man said he had about $20k. The officer asked if he could search the car, and the driver said it was not a problem. The cash was confiscated because the lawmakers in TN assume if you have a large amount of cash you are up to no good.

State law requires that a judge sign off on the siezure. But the state sets it up so that hearing "shall be ex parte". In other words, the citizen's side of the story is not heard, only the officer's.


WTF? I know this is not new, but jeez.
Click to expand...

This is the relevant pull quote from the article

Bates is part of a system that, NewsChannel 5 Investigates has discovered, gives Tennessee police agencies the incentive to take cash off of out-of-state drivers. If they don't come back to fight for their money, the agency gets to keep it all.

My first reaction was, why would any cop ask someone if they have large sums of cash? I have been pulled over plenty of times in my life and never asked that question. But, the cops are banking on the out of towners not coming back and the police dept getting to keep the money. This is a scam of monumental proportions.

Initially, I did wonder, WTF would you be doing with $20,000 in cash, but when I kept reading the Ebay explanation is very plausible. I hope this person has some recourse. What a freaking shame.

It is ashame that large cash transactions are automatically presumed to be involved with the drug trade. Did you know that if you deposit more than $10,000 in cash into a bank that the bank is required to report it?
 
Yurt said:
this is a complete violation of our due process rights.
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not according to the courts, since they've 'reasoned' that we can't own property that was received from criminal activity and if we are not charged with a crime, but the cash or property is, then our due process is not violated.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
not according to the courts, since they've 'reasoned' that we can't own property that was received from criminal activity and if we are not charged with a crime, but the cash or property is, then our due process is not violated.
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i've not read any cases where the person is not charged with a crime. make that only CA cases because we had a few high notoriety marijuana asset seizure cases.

if the courts have ruled in other states as you state, the judges clearly do not understand our constitution. especially with money, money doesn't come from drugs, it comes from the government. further, if the property was purchased with drug money, why does the government get to auction said property off?
 
Yurt said:
i've not read any cases where the person is not charged with a crime. make that only CA cases because we had a few high notoriety marijuana asset seizure cases.

if the courts have ruled in other states as you state, the judges clearly do not understand our constitution. especially with money, money doesn't come from drugs, it comes from the government. further, if the property was purchased with drug money, why does the government get to auction said property off?
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http://www.law.cornell.edu/background/forfeiture/
 
correct, to an extent. most cases of cash forfeiture end up in the courts as US v. 190,000 dollars, as they are charging the cash with the crime. but the abuse comes in many forms, much like the OP
 
the few cases i remember in CA, the judges gave the person back their marijuana or property so long as prop 215 was not violated. i understand, to a degree, confiscating property/cash that is the direct result of illegal activity, however, i do not approve of the violation of due process in which the government seizes the property.

you have more rights to keep welfare checks coming... than you do keeping your cash.
 
Well, he got the money back in the end. I've seen cases where large sums of money are confiscated, and taxes taken out if you can't prove where you got the cash.

This is pretty screwed up. He never should have let the pig search the car.
 
WinterBorn said:
These confiscation procedures gall me to no end. The fact that these laws exist in the US is proof that we no longer enjoy the freedoms guaranteed by the US Constitution.

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/18241221/man-loses-22000-in-new-policing-for-profit-case

The man was pulled over in TN. The officer asked him if he had any large amounts of cash. The man said he had about $20k. The officer asked if he could search the car, and the driver said it was not a problem. The cash was confiscated because the lawmakers in TN assume if you have a large amount of cash you are up to no good.

State law requires that a judge sign off on the siezure. But the state sets it up so that hearing "shall be ex parte". In other words, the citizen's side of the story is not heard, only the officer's.


WTF? I know this is not new, but jeez.
Click to expand...

this is a true abomination and miscarriage of justice

remind me to avoid tn
 
Althea said:
Well, he got the money back in the end. I've seen cases where large sums of money are confiscated, and taxes taken out if you can't prove where you got the cash.

This is pretty screwed up. He never should have let the pig search the car.
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one thing my lawyers(s) always told me, is never give permission.

They'll hold you forever, but they gotta get a dog to make a hit. I doubt dogs can hit cash, but noting surprises me about todays "justice"
 
annata said:
one thing my lawyers(s) always told me, is never give permission.

They'll hold you forever, but they gotta get a dog to make a hit. I doubt dogs can hit cash, but noting surprises me about todays "justice"
Click to expand...

if a cop wants to search your vehicle, he's gonna search it. it's becoming known that dogs are trained to 'alert' on their handlers call.
 
WinterBorn said:
These confiscation procedures gall me to no end. The fact that these laws exist in the US is proof that we no longer enjoy the freedoms guaranteed by the US Constitution.

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/18241221/man-loses-22000-in-new-policing-for-profit-case

The man was pulled over in TN. The officer asked him if he had any large amounts of cash. The man said he had about $20k. The officer asked if he could search the car, and the driver said it was not a problem. The cash was confiscated because the lawmakers in TN assume if you have a large amount of cash you are up to no good.

State law requires that a judge sign off on the siezure. But the state sets it up so that hearing "shall be ex parte". In other words, the citizen's side of the story is not heard, only the officer's.


WTF? I know this is not new, but jeez.
Click to expand...

Even if we are to assume that a law that simply bans possessing a large amount of money should be valid (which is giving them a lot), it should require a full criminal trial. Instead, under current procedures, the police can just see some money, decide for themselves that it's over the amount, and then take it and fund their department with it. Fucking ridiculous.

Police departments shouldn't be funded with fines. That creates a perverse incentive. All fines should be returned to the taxpayer in the form of a rebate.
 
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