Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
You don't watch Fox News, do you?
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The Almighty
I think we need to eliminate the ability of corporations and special interest groups to bribe politicians and call it lobbying. It is one thing to go before a member of Congress (or the President) and put forth ones ideas and suggestions. It is quite another when that is accompanied by money to the DNC, RNC, or the specific member of Congress's campaign fund. (not to mention all the, 'hey, we will hire your former aides or you when you leave politics' crap that is going on)
You are correct. It is the elimination of loopholes and deductions that is needed, but the problem is that they will simply 'lobby' to get them back from either a future politician or the very same ones (once the public is distracted again to the point of not paying attention).
What we need to do is a permanent fix to the tax code. Make it permanent through an amendment so that it cannot be altered again... other than to adjust the actual income tax rate or standard deduction.
We can even 'tax the rich' more so that liberals get on board.
I know this is probably getting old to some since I have posted it numerous times over the years.... but the example is:
Standard deduction $30k per adult.
ALL income sources taxed at 20% from the $30k (60k for couple) up to $1m.
ALL income sources taxed at 30% for $1m and above.
No more regressive corporate income tax.
The $30k and $1m levels are to be adjusted for inflation each year.
The only things politicians would be able to change in the future is the tax rate.
My guess is that the 20 and 30% brackets are probably a bit high, but until we pay down the debt, it should be high. I would also add in a caveat that states that government spending (federal) is also pegged to inflation. It is not allowed to exceed the previous years spending levels by more than inflation, unless we are in a technical recession.
No subsidies, no loopholes, no deductions beyond the standard. As a business, you either make it or you don't.
For public universities, same standard, they are not allowed to exceed the inflation rate in cost increases (and we really should look at why they have been so out of control for the past two plus decades)
For health care, everyone back to qualifying for their own plan.... preferably the high deductible plans we used to have before the advent of the HMO/PPO combined with a health savings account. For those that do not qualify.... THEY are what we can figure out a 'national plan' for.
Just my opinion.
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The Almighty
The thing is, the top 1% is not a stagnant group. 57% of the top 1 percent in 1996 were no longer in that group in 2005. The bottom quintile also sees similar changes. People move up and down the ranks depending on a wide variety of conditions.
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The Almighty
We used to have a complete and total buffoon that would come on here and spout nonsense like the above. This guy was the dumbest of the dumb. He made retards like Webb look like geniuses. We won't even get into his completely perverted stalking of women. So my question to you is, do you really wish to put yourself into such a category of ill repute? Is that the type of cut and paste poster you are going to be? Do you truly wish to be viewed as such an idiot? If so, you are on the right path. You just need to change your name to Cypress.
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Darla
I'm going to go sell some stuff. Maybe I will return on Monday.
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Darla
BTW I am an excellent sales person. Did you guys know that I brought in two large hotels that anyone would know the names of this week? No shit, for total real. I'm really good. Have a great day boys! 
BTW I am an excellent sales person. Did you guys know that I brought in two large hotels that anyone would know the names of this week? No shit, for total real. I'm really good. Have a great day boys!
I hope we all get into the 1%...
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Well that's very much true. Heck that can change for a given individual within their life time several times. For example, a person could be in the bottom quartile while a student, work up to the top 1% during their working career and drop out of that 1% when they retire.
However that's not really what's at issue here. Rather that there is a growing sense in this nation that the top income earners are gathering wealth disproportionatly greater then what they actually produce and that many who contribute substantially to the production of wealth are not being fairly or adequately compensated for that productivity. If such a trend were to continue to grow it would certainly lead to greater political instability.
QUOTE=Mott the Hoople;889333]Well the author certainly has a point (though to make one correction. The top 1% does not control 99% of the wealth of this nation. The majority of the wealth but not 99%).
I have worked my ass off to take advantage of the opportunities the previous generations have sacrificed and earned for me. All I ask in return for my hard work is a fair exchange of value for value for my productive work. I don't expect to have to work for pennies and live in poverty because of some political extremist ideologues moronic notion that what's good for some fucking plutocrat is what is good for me.
I'm not going to sit back and let some pig eat up all the pie. I'm going to fight for my fair share of a pie that I worked productively for and have earned as a fair and productive exchange of value for value.
Just as the social welfare state has no claim on my productive labors based on their needs, neither do the plutocrats or aristocrats have a claim on my productive labors as some sort of birth right, either. The top 1% didn't become fabulously wealthy in this nation in a vacuum. To succeed they have to rely on vast armies of skilled, hard working and productive individuals who contribute enormously to the creation of that wealth and to call those of us who fight for our fair share of that wealth "socialist" cause were not going to let an elite few have it all is just plain stupid.[/QUOTE]
Nice post Mott....interesting....but don't forget....
Though the top 1% needed the vast armies of skilled hard working and productive individuals, it was the 1%'s capital, the 1%'s ideas, the 1%'s innovations, inventions, and risks.... that made them successful in general....and YOU were lucky enough to get ANY SHARE of that success.....
Those vast armies of skilled hard working and productive individuals could just as easily have come from Mexico, China, Japan or numerous other places around the world....
Its was capitalism that made all of our standards rise to become the envy of the world
I have worked my ass off to take advantage of the opportunities the previous generations have sacrificed and earned for me. All I ask in return for my hard work is a fair exchange of value for value for my productive work. I don't expect to have to work for pennies and live in poverty because of some political extremist ideologues moronic notion that what's good for some fucking plutocrat is what is good for me.
I'm not going to sit back and let some pig eat up all the pie. I'm going to fight for my fair share of a pie that I worked productively for and have earned as a fair and productive exchange of value for value.
Just as the social welfare state has no claim on my productive labors based on their needs, neither do the plutocrats or aristocrats have a claim on my productive labors as some sort of birth right, either. The top 1% didn't become fabulously wealthy in this nation in a vacuum. To succeed they have to rely on vast armies of skilled, hard working and productive individuals who contribute enormously to the creation of that wealth and to call those of us who fight for our fair share of that wealth "socialist" cause were not going to let an elite few have it all is just plain stupid.[/QUOTE]
Nice post Mott....interesting....but don't forget....
Though the top 1% needed the vast armies of skilled hard working and productive individuals, it was the 1%'s capital, the 1%'s ideas, the 1%'s innovations, inventions, and risks.... that made them successful in general....and YOU were lucky enough to get ANY SHARE of that success.....
Those vast armies of skilled hard working and productive individuals could just as easily have come from Mexico, China, Japan or numerous other places around the world....
Its was capitalism that made all of our standards rise to become the envy of the world
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
You only have to be there a short time if you do it rigth!I hope we all get into the 1%...
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Nice post Mott....interesting....but don't forget....
Though the top 1% needed the vast armies of skilled hard working and productive individuals, it was the 1%'s capital, the 1%'s ideas, the 1%'s innovations, inventions, and risks.... that made them successful in general....and YOU were lucky enough to get ANY SHARE of that success.....
Those vast armies of skilled hard working and productive individuals could just as easily have come from Mexico, China, Japan or numerous other places around the world....
Its was capitalism that made all of our standards rise to become the envy of the world
[/QUOTE]Complete and total bullshit Pavo. You cannot do one with out the other. That's not how wealth creation works. Wealth creation is just as dependent on the productivity of the skilled tradesman, the shrewed businessman, the competent profesional and the inspired artisan as much as they are the capitalist, the entrebraneur and the innovator. The plain hard fact of the matter is that one side of the equation achieves wealth that is disproportionate to their actual productivity, and at the expense of the other producers of wealth, political instability will result. Capitalism is important but it's just one part of the economic puzzle.
Or, in simple words even you can understand Pavo, The Capitalist can't do it all by themselves. They need helpers and those helpers expect their fair share of the pie and the reason those helper are American helpers and not Chinese, Mexican or Indian is because we have the largest volume of skilled and professional caliber workers of any nation on the planet. Why do you think the USA still has the largest economy in the world? It's not just because of our Capitalist class. You would be confusing cause with effect there. It is in a large part because we have the largest number of highly educated, skilled, professional and most productive workers in the world who have the political freedom to charge what the market will bear for their work. This permits the Capitalist class to invest in new markets, ideas and technologies with far lower risk, with far greater productivity and far greater returns then elsewhere in the world. Though that is changing as the rest of the world is starting to catch up to the American workers standard of productivity the fact is, they still have a long way to go and THAT is why America is still the largest economy in the world!
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Good for you Darla....I'm a good technologist but sales is not my strong point. I work with a lot of salesmen/women and I now just how hard that job can be.BTW I am an excellent sales person. Did you guys know that I brought in two large hotels that anyone would know the names of this week? No shit, for total real. I'm really good. Have a great day boys!
Nice post Mott....interesting....but don't forget....
Though the top 1% needed the vast armies of skilled hard working and productive individuals, it was the 1%'s capital, the 1%'s ideas, the 1%'s innovations, inventions, and risks.... that made them successful in general....and YOU were lucky enough to get ANY SHARE of that success.....
Those vast armies of skilled hard working and productive individuals could just as easily have come from Mexico, China, Japan or numerous other places around the world....
Its was capitalism that made all of our standards rise to become the envy of the world
[/QUOTE]
You are so full of shit you fucking idiot.
It was the buying power of the vast middle class that fueled the wealth creation of the top 1%.
By destroying the middle class, they have killed their golden goose.
W
WinterBorn
Guest
So increased taxation and handouts were responsible for the growth? No capitalistism involved, just new laws and a New Deal?
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The Almighty
Yes, it was all liberal policies like the New Deal. No WAY did it have anything to do with the fact that all of our major competition was pounded into the ground during WWII. No WAY should we look at the fact that those SAME liberal policies existed from 1966 to 1982 when we had a very stagnant economy (once our competitors were able to actually.... COMPETE with us again). Nope... all New Deal... just ignore the 12 year DEPRESSION. That doesn't count.
W
WinterBorn
Guest
Excuse me, but did you not post "The liberal era from the New Deal through the Great Society was America's finest moment."? That justifies my statement that you wish to return to the "Ozzie & Harriet" days. Can you not see a huge difference between that and your "Your Monica Lewinsky of the rich post shows you don't understand the issue."?
Amazing that 'liberal history' is so very much different than reality.....like Reagan said..."its not that liberals don't know anything, its that so much of what they know is wrong"....
Complete and total bullshit Pavo. You cannot do one with out the other. That's not how wealth creation works. Wealth creation is just as dependent on the productivity of the skilled tradesman, the shrewed businessman, the competent profesional and the inspired artisan as much as they are the capitalist, the entrebraneur and the innovator. The plain hard fact of the matter is that one side of the equation achieves wealth that is disproportionate to their actual productivity, and at the expense of the other producers of wealth, political instability will result. Capitalism is important but it's just one part of the economic puzzle.
Or, in simple words even you can understand Pavo, The Capitalist can't do it all by themselves. They need helpers and those helpers expect their fair share of the pie and the reason those helper are American helpers and not Chinese, Mexican or Indian is because we have the largest volume of skilled and professional caliber workers of any nation on the planet. Why do you think the USA still has the largest economy in the world? It's not just because of our Capitalist class. You would be confusing cause with effect there. It is in a large part because we have the largest number of highly educated, skilled, professional and most productive workers in the world who have the political freedom to charge what the market will bear for their work. This permits the Capitalist class to invest in new markets, ideas and technologies with far lower risk, with far greater productivity and far greater returns then elsewhere in the world. Though that is changing as the rest of the world is starting to catch up to the American workers standard of productivity the fact is, they still have a long way to go and THAT is why America is still the largest economy in the world![/QUOTE]
But I didn't say the capitalists can do "IT" themselves....I distinctly said,
the top 1% needed the vast armies of skilled hard working and productive individuals,
it was the 1%'s capital, the 1%'s ideas, the 1%'s innovations, inventions, and risks.... that made them successful in general
Meaning the workers couldn't do anything without that 1%
..and YOU were lucky enough to get ANY SHARE of that success.....
and I point out that you are lucky that the work happened here in the US, and not in China or some other place..those "helpers' just as easily could have been from China or wherever, and today, they increasingly are, they are smart, productive, eager and grateful.
You need to understand, you need the 1% more than they need you.....they are the indispensable minority....so get over yourself.
Thats the reality.....
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