GOP logic on fiscal cliff

Thing1 said:
The CBO concluded that raising taxes on the top 2% would create 1.6 million jobs.

I care about blame, because it will be the GOP's fault if they don't compromise.
Click to expand...

And it will be the Democrats fault if THEY don't compromise.....
 
Thing1 said:
It's still sort of fuzzy math to me. At this point, it seems like they're willing to raise taxes on everyone, in a way that is very harmful to the economy & to everyone's well-being, rather than raise taxes on only the top 2%, which won't harm the economy or anyone at all, and who are going to see their taxes go up either way.

Do I have that right? How again do they presume that most Americans won't blame them for not making a deal?
Click to expand...
Why shouldn't taxes be raised on everyone? Everyone uses the same gubmint services. Why should some be subsidized by others?
 
Thing1 said:
The Democrats have offered $1.2 trillion worth of cuts, including cuts to programs like SS and Medicare.

Nice try, though. Maybe you should start reading the news?
Click to expand...


The Democrats have offered nothing until its in writing and proposed as legislation....until then, it bullshit propaganda sound bites for the media to use
to blackmail the Republicans in the eyes of the public .......considering how stupid the pinhead citizens are, its a good tactic.....

Maybe you should start analyzing what news you read and question what the left-wing media actually tells the public...
Why something happens is always more important than the event.....
 
bravo said:
The Democrats have offered nothing until its in writing and proposed as legislation....until then, it bullshit propaganda sound bites for the media to use
to blackmail the Republicans in the eyes of the public .......considering how stupid the pinhead citizens are, its a good tactic.....

Maybe you should start analyzing what news you read and question what the left-wing media actually tells the public...
Click to expand...

LOL - it's what they offered, idiot. You do know that Obama has been meeting with Dems & Republicans, right? Obama & the Dems said, "we'll cut $1.2 trillion in spending, but we need you to agree to raise taxes on the top 2%." Boehner & the GOP said, "No, we won't do that."

And in bravoland, that's where the Dems are supposed to say, "Okay, well, we'll spend a lot of time writing up the bill anyway, to give you all a chance to vote 'no' and waste everyone's time."

Got it.
 
a total of 375 bills that passed the Democratic-majority House have been blocked by Republicans in the Senate?
That’s THREE HUNDRED SEVENTY-FIVE BILLS!

HR 12 -- Paycheck Fairness Act

H.R. 20 -- Melanie Blocker Stokes Mom’s Opportunity to Access Health, Education, Research, and Support for Postpartum Depression Act

H.R. 320 -- CJ’s Home Protection Act

H.R. 448 -- Elder Abuse Victims Act

H.R. 466 –- Wounded Veteran Job Security Act

H.R. 515 –- Radioactive Import Deterrence Act

H.R. 549 -- National Bombing Prevention Act

H.R. 577 –- Vision Care for Kids Act

H.R. 626 –- Federal Employees Paid Parental Leave Act

H.R. 780 –- Student Internet Safety Act

H.R. 911 -- Stop Child Abuse in Residential Programs for Teens Act

H.R. 985 -- Free Flow of Information Act

H.R. 1029 -– Alien Smuggling and Terrorism Prevention Act

H.R. 1110 –- PHONE Act and H.R. 1258 – The Truth in Caller ID Act

H.R. 1168 -- Veterans Retraining Act

H.R. 1171 –- Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program Reauthorization

H.R. 1262 -- Water Quality Investment Act

H.R. 1293 -- Disabled Veterans Home Improvement and Structural Alteration Grant Increase Act of 2009

H.R. 1319 –- Informed P2P User Act

H.R. 1380 -- Josh Miller HEARTS Act

H.R. 1429 -- Stop AIDS in Prison Act

every single one of these bills is being blocked by every single Republican in the Senate, all of whom are working in lockstep to prevent a vote.

H.R. 1469 –- Child Protection Improvements Act

H.R. 1511 –- Torture Victims Relief Reauthorization Act

H.R. 1514 –- Juvenile Accountability Block Grants Program Reauthorization Act

H.R. 1580 –- Electronic Waste Research and Development Act

H.R. 1585 -- FIT Kids Act

H.R. 1617 –- Department of Homeland Security Component Privacy Officer Act

H.R. 1622 -– Research and Development Programs for Natural Gas Vehicles

H.R. 1675 –- Frank Melville Supportive Housing Investment Act of 2009

H.R. 1709 –- STEM Education Coordination Act

H.R. 1722 -- Telework Improvements Act

H.R. 1727 -- Managing Arson Through Criminal History (MATCH) Act

DEMOCRATS are passing bills to make things easier, and REPUBLICANS are refusing to even allow an “up or down vote.”

H.R. 1741 -- Witness Security and Protection Grant Program Act

H.R. 1796 –- Carbon Monoxide Poisoning Prevention Act

H.R. 1803 -- Veterans Business Center Act

H.R. 1807 –- Educating Entrepreneurs through Today’s Technology Act

H.R. 1834 –- Native American Business Development Enhancement Act

H.R. 1838 –- Amending Small Business Act

H.R. 1824 -- Best Buddies Empowerment for People with Intellectual Disabilities Act

H.R. 1875 -- End the Trade Deficit Act

H.R. 1879 -- National Guard Employment Protection Act

H.R. 1933 –- A Child Is Missing Alert and Recovery Center Act

H.R. 2020 -- Networking and Information Technology Research and Development Act of 2009

H.R. 2093 –- Clean Coastal Environment and Public Health Act

H.R. 2134 -- Western Hemisphere Drug Policy Commission Act

Democrats PASSED the following bills, and Senate Republicans prevented these bills from even coming to a vote.

H.R. 2142 – Government Efficiency, Effectiveness, and Performance Improvement Act

H.R. 2187 – 21st Century Green High-Performing Public School Facilities Act

H.R. 2200 – Transportation Security Administration Authorization Act

H.R. 2221 – Data Accountability and Trust Act

H.R. 2352 – Job Creation Through Entrepreneurship Act

H.R. 2454 – American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009

H.R. 2510 – Absentee Ballot Track, Receive and Confirm Act

H.R. 2529 – Neighborhood Preservation Act

H.R. 2554 – National Association of Registered Agents and Brokers Reform Act

H.R. 2611 – Authorizing the Securing the Cities Initiative of the Department of Homeland Security

H.R. 2664 – Promoting Transparency in Financial Reporting Act

H.R. 2693 – Oil Pollution Research and Development Program Reauthorization Act

H.R. 2749 -- Food Safety Enhancement Act

H.R. 2868 – Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism Act of 2009, Drinking Water System Security Act of 2009 and Wastewater Treatment Works Security Act of 2009
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/04/1127520/-Standing-in-the-way-of-Progress


Imagine what kind of country we could build, if we actually elected people who cared about governing ... it could life changing.


The backlash against the Republicon party from this is going to be huge next election. Americans want and need a govt that works, not multinational right wing obstructionists. The right is digging its own grave as we speak. But rest assured they will spend millions maybe billions of foreign slush money next election on their propaganda and paid-for candidates that will sway the hateful and weak minded to vote, again, against their own self interests.

Come on Dix, justify your party's obstructionism and explain in 10 long paragraphs how this is good for the country.
 
Dixie said:
I don't get the logic, how does it "not harm the economy or anyone at all" to raise taxes on the top 2%, but it's economic catastrophe to raise everyone's taxes? The top 2% are the job creators, we know this is a fact. Does raising their taxes not effect job creation? The top 2% are the ones who pay most people's salaries, if they have less money, aren't salaries going to be less likely to be increased?

Not to mention the whole "revenue" argument. We know that increasing the tax rate on top marginal incomes will not produce more revenue, but rather LESS revenue. We also know that increasing the tax rates for middle class, will increase revenue. So it seems increasing everyone's tax will produce more revenue than increasing just the top 2%.

You know, I really don't care about "blame" anymore. I don't think most Americans do either. I understand you are still gung-ho with the "blame game" politics, and think this is something you can use as a weapon to continue in political power, but I really do think you are underestimating the people. Maybe I am wrong, and if so, the current crop of GOP elite will pay the price... hey, I am fine with that too! Go for it, take 'em all out! Hell, let's have ALL of congress totally controlled and dominated by Democrats again! Maybe then, you'll start actually governing and stop trying to blame your failure to lead on Republicans?
Click to expand...

Talking about the 2% being job creators is a fallacious argument and why the GOP is losing the argument. Not all of the 2% are job creators. It is a lazy argument. The argument should be made on principle about freedom and property rights.

The current GOP leadership is feckless to say the least. They have been outmaneuvered by Obama and the democrats at every turn since the debt debacle last year. There aren't too many conservatives in national office who can articulate conservatism and it is the easiest damned thing to do. Boehner can't. He keeps spouting the "I don't want to raise taxes on the job creators". It is the lamest possible argument one could make and you shouldn't be repeating it.
 
Crashk said:
a total of 375 bills that passed the Democratic-majority House have been blocked by Republicans in the Senate?
That’s THREE HUNDRED SEVENTY-FIVE BILLS!

HR 12 -- Paycheck Fairness Act

H.R. 20 -- Melanie Blocker Stokes Mom’s Opportunity to Access Health, Education, Research, and Support for Postpartum Depression Act

H.R. 320 -- CJ’s Home Protection Act

H.R. 448 -- Elder Abuse Victims Act

H.R. 466 –- Wounded Veteran Job Security Act

H.R. 515 –- Radioactive Import Deterrence Act

H.R. 549 -- National Bombing Prevention Act

H.R. 577 –- Vision Care for Kids Act

H.R. 626 –- Federal Employees Paid Parental Leave Act

H.R. 780 –- Student Internet Safety Act

H.R. 911 -- Stop Child Abuse in Residential Programs for Teens Act

H.R. 985 -- Free Flow of Information Act

H.R. 1029 -– Alien Smuggling and Terrorism Prevention Act

H.R. 1110 –- PHONE Act and H.R. 1258 – The Truth in Caller ID Act

H.R. 1168 -- Veterans Retraining Act

H.R. 1171 –- Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program Reauthorization

H.R. 1262 -- Water Quality Investment Act

H.R. 1293 -- Disabled Veterans Home Improvement and Structural Alteration Grant Increase Act of 2009

H.R. 1319 –- Informed P2P User Act

H.R. 1380 -- Josh Miller HEARTS Act

H.R. 1429 -- Stop AIDS in Prison Act

every single one of these bills is being blocked by every single Republican in the Senate, all of whom are working in lockstep to prevent a vote.

H.R. 1469 –- Child Protection Improvements Act

H.R. 1511 –- Torture Victims Relief Reauthorization Act

H.R. 1514 –- Juvenile Accountability Block Grants Program Reauthorization Act

H.R. 1580 –- Electronic Waste Research and Development Act

H.R. 1585 -- FIT Kids Act

H.R. 1617 –- Department of Homeland Security Component Privacy Officer Act

H.R. 1622 -– Research and Development Programs for Natural Gas Vehicles

H.R. 1675 –- Frank Melville Supportive Housing Investment Act of 2009

H.R. 1709 –- STEM Education Coordination Act

H.R. 1722 -- Telework Improvements Act

H.R. 1727 -- Managing Arson Through Criminal History (MATCH) Act

DEMOCRATS are passing bills to make things easier, and REPUBLICANS are refusing to even allow an “up or down vote.”

H.R. 1741 -- Witness Security and Protection Grant Program Act

H.R. 1796 –- Carbon Monoxide Poisoning Prevention Act

H.R. 1803 -- Veterans Business Center Act

H.R. 1807 –- Educating Entrepreneurs through Today’s Technology Act

H.R. 1834 –- Native American Business Development Enhancement Act

H.R. 1838 –- Amending Small Business Act

H.R. 1824 -- Best Buddies Empowerment for People with Intellectual Disabilities Act

H.R. 1875 -- End the Trade Deficit Act

H.R. 1879 -- National Guard Employment Protection Act

H.R. 1933 –- A Child Is Missing Alert and Recovery Center Act

H.R. 2020 -- Networking and Information Technology Research and Development Act of 2009

H.R. 2093 –- Clean Coastal Environment and Public Health Act

H.R. 2134 -- Western Hemisphere Drug Policy Commission Act

Democrats PASSED the following bills, and Senate Republicans prevented these bills from even coming to a vote.

H.R. 2142 – Government Efficiency, Effectiveness, and Performance Improvement Act

H.R. 2187 – 21st Century Green High-Performing Public School Facilities Act

H.R. 2200 – Transportation Security Administration Authorization Act

H.R. 2221 – Data Accountability and Trust Act

H.R. 2352 – Job Creation Through Entrepreneurship Act

H.R. 2454 – American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009

H.R. 2510 – Absentee Ballot Track, Receive and Confirm Act

H.R. 2529 – Neighborhood Preservation Act

H.R. 2554 – National Association of Registered Agents and Brokers Reform Act

H.R. 2611 – Authorizing the Securing the Cities Initiative of the Department of Homeland Security

H.R. 2664 – Promoting Transparency in Financial Reporting Act

H.R. 2693 – Oil Pollution Research and Development Program Reauthorization Act

H.R. 2749 -- Food Safety Enhancement Act

H.R. 2868 – Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism Act of 2009, Drinking Water System Security Act of 2009 and Wastewater Treatment Works Security Act of 2009
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/04/1127520/-Standing-in-the-way-of-Progress


Imagine what kind of country we could build, if we actually elected people who cared about governing ... it could life changing.


The backlash against the Republicon party from this is going to be huge next election. Americans want and need a govt that works, not multinational right wing obstructionists. The right is digging its own grave as we speak. But rest assured they will spend millions maybe billions of foreign slush money next election on their propaganda and paid-for candidates that will sway the hateful and weak minded to vote, again, against their own self interests.

Come on Dix, justify your party's obstructionism and explain in 10 long paragraphs how this is good for the country.
Click to expand...

Good. We have enough laws that nobody follows or the gobblement fucked up. We don't need anymore.
 
Crashk said:
a total of 375 bills that passed the Democratic-majority House have been blocked by Republicans in the Senate?
That’s THREE HUNDRED SEVENTY-FIVE BILLS!

HR 12 -- Paycheck Fairness Act

H.R. 20 -- Melanie Blocker Stokes Mom’s Opportunity to Access Health, Education, Research, and Support for Postpartum Depression Act

H.R. 320 -- CJ’s Home Protection Act

H.R. 448 -- Elder Abuse Victims Act

H.R. 466 –- Wounded Veteran Job Security Act

H.R. 515 –- Radioactive Import Deterrence Act

H.R. 549 -- National Bombing Prevention Act

H.R. 577 –- Vision Care for Kids Act

H.R. 626 –- Federal Employees Paid Parental Leave Act

H.R. 780 –- Student Internet Safety Act

H.R. 911 -- Stop Child Abuse in Residential Programs for Teens Act

H.R. 985 -- Free Flow of Information Act

H.R. 1029 -– Alien Smuggling and Terrorism Prevention Act

H.R. 1110 –- PHONE Act and H.R. 1258 – The Truth in Caller ID Act

H.R. 1168 -- Veterans Retraining Act

H.R. 1171 –- Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program Reauthorization

H.R. 1262 -- Water Quality Investment Act

H.R. 1293 -- Disabled Veterans Home Improvement and Structural Alteration Grant Increase Act of 2009

H.R. 1319 –- Informed P2P User Act

H.R. 1380 -- Josh Miller HEARTS Act

H.R. 1429 -- Stop AIDS in Prison Act

every single one of these bills is being blocked by every single Republican in the Senate, all of whom are working in lockstep to prevent a vote.

H.R. 1469 –- Child Protection Improvements Act

H.R. 1511 –- Torture Victims Relief Reauthorization Act

H.R. 1514 –- Juvenile Accountability Block Grants Program Reauthorization Act

H.R. 1580 –- Electronic Waste Research and Development Act

H.R. 1585 -- FIT Kids Act

H.R. 1617 –- Department of Homeland Security Component Privacy Officer Act

H.R. 1622 -– Research and Development Programs for Natural Gas Vehicles

H.R. 1675 –- Frank Melville Supportive Housing Investment Act of 2009

H.R. 1709 –- STEM Education Coordination Act

H.R. 1722 -- Telework Improvements Act

H.R. 1727 -- Managing Arson Through Criminal History (MATCH) Act

DEMOCRATS are passing bills to make things easier, and REPUBLICANS are refusing to even allow an “up or down vote.”

H.R. 1741 -- Witness Security and Protection Grant Program Act

H.R. 1796 –- Carbon Monoxide Poisoning Prevention Act

H.R. 1803 -- Veterans Business Center Act

H.R. 1807 –- Educating Entrepreneurs through Today’s Technology Act

H.R. 1834 –- Native American Business Development Enhancement Act

H.R. 1838 –- Amending Small Business Act

H.R. 1824 -- Best Buddies Empowerment for People with Intellectual Disabilities Act

H.R. 1875 -- End the Trade Deficit Act

H.R. 1879 -- National Guard Employment Protection Act

H.R. 1933 –- A Child Is Missing Alert and Recovery Center Act

H.R. 2020 -- Networking and Information Technology Research and Development Act of 2009

H.R. 2093 –- Clean Coastal Environment and Public Health Act

H.R. 2134 -- Western Hemisphere Drug Policy Commission Act

Democrats PASSED the following bills, and Senate Republicans prevented these bills from even coming to a vote.

H.R. 2142 – Government Efficiency, Effectiveness, and Performance Improvement Act

H.R. 2187 – 21st Century Green High-Performing Public School Facilities Act

H.R. 2200 – Transportation Security Administration Authorization Act

H.R. 2221 – Data Accountability and Trust Act

H.R. 2352 – Job Creation Through Entrepreneurship Act

H.R. 2454 – American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009

H.R. 2510 – Absentee Ballot Track, Receive and Confirm Act

H.R. 2529 – Neighborhood Preservation Act

H.R. 2554 – National Association of Registered Agents and Brokers Reform Act

H.R. 2611 – Authorizing the Securing the Cities Initiative of the Department of Homeland Security

H.R. 2664 – Promoting Transparency in Financial Reporting Act

H.R. 2693 – Oil Pollution Research and Development Program Reauthorization Act

H.R. 2749 -- Food Safety Enhancement Act

H.R. 2868 – Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism Act of 2009, Drinking Water System Security Act of 2009 and Wastewater Treatment Works Security Act of 2009
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/04/1127520/-Standing-in-the-way-of-Progress


Imagine what kind of country we could build, if we actually elected people who cared about governing ... it could life changing.


The backlash against the Republicon party from this is going to be huge next election. Americans want and need a govt that works, not multinational right wing obstructionists. The right is digging its own grave as we speak. But rest assured they will spend millions maybe billions of foreign slush money next election on their propaganda and paid-for candidates that will sway the hateful and weak minded to vote, again, against their own self interests.

Come on Dix, justify your party's obstructionism and explain in 10 long paragraphs how this is good for the country.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I plan to borrow this!
 
Thing1 said:
LOL - it's what they offered, idiot. You do know that Obama has been meeting with Dems & Republicans, right? Obama & the Dems said, "we'll cut $1.2 trillion in spending, but we need you to agree to raise taxes on the top 2%." Boehner & the GOP said, "No, we won't do that."

And in bravoland, that's where the Dems are supposed to say, "Okay, well, we'll spend a lot of time writing up the bill anyway, to give you all a chance to vote 'no' and waste everyone's time."

Got it.
Click to expand...

What you "hear" about in closed door meetings is what they want you to hear....put it in writing, thats wtf we're paying them to do....they we'll all see EXACTLY what is
being offered or rejected....unfiltered by the left wing media........in Thingyland, its ok for the Democrats in Congress to just sit on their asses and do nothing, then blame everybody else .....
the same shit that been going on for 20 years and you're still stupid enough to buy it ....... you'd think you'd get a little smarter as you mature, but you get even more
stupid and gullible....
 
bravo said:
What you "hear" about in closed door meetings is what they want you to hear....put it in writing, thats wtf we're paying them to do....they we'll all see EXACTLY what is
being offered or rejected....unfiltered by the left wing media........in Thingyland, its ok for the Democrats in Congress to just sit on their asses and do nothing, then blame everybody else .....
the same shit that been going on for 20 years and you're still stupid enough to buy it ....... you'd think you'd get a little smarter as you mature, but you get even more
stupid and gullible....
Click to expand...

Or, it's what I hear when Obama comes out after the meeting and says they could make a deal if the GOP would agree to raise taxes on the top 2%, and then Boehner comes out after him and says that the GOP won't budge on raising taxes for the top 2%.

Your stupidity is relentless. You always talk about libbies being unable to "refute facts," but then when you're confronted with "facts," you say they're all a media creation. You have no idea what's going on w/ the fiscal cliff deal.
 
Sorry Rana......2009 is long gone....over....passed

Check your calender, its 2012 and in a few days, 2013.......catch up or shut up, either one.
 
Thing1 said:
LOL - it's what they offered, idiot. You do know that Obama has been meeting with Dems & Republicans, right? Obama & the Dems said, "we'll cut $1.2 trillion in spending, but we need you to agree to raise taxes on the top 2%." Boehner & the GOP said, "No, we won't do that."

And in bravoland, that's where the Dems are supposed to say, "Okay, well, we'll spend a lot of time writing up the bill anyway, to give you all a chance to vote 'no' and waste everyone's time."

Got it.
Click to expand...

I thought it was only supposed to be the top 1%. How did we get to the top 2%? Can you answer? During the campaign it was always the top 1%

Answer that
 
Thing1 said:
Or, it's what I hear when Obama comes out after the meeting and says they could make a deal if the GOP would agree to raise taxes on the top 2%, and then Boehner comes out after him and says that the GOP won't budge on raising taxes for the top 2%.

Your stupidity is relentless. You always talk about libbies being unable to "refute facts," but then when you're confronted with "facts," you say they're all a media creation. You have no idea what's going on w/ the fiscal cliff deal.
Click to expand...

Key word: stupidity
 
Thing1 said:
Or, it's what I hear when Obama comes out after the meeting and says they could make a deal if the GOP would agree to raise taxes on the top 2%, and then Boehner comes out after him and says that the GOP won't budge on raising taxes for the top 2%.

Your stupidity is relentless. You always talk about libbies being unable to "refute facts," but then when you're confronted with "facts," you say they're all a media creation. You have no idea what's going on w/ the fiscal cliff deal.
Click to expand...

I didn't say you left wing media was telling lies....but they are reporting news with a spin to ALWAYS present the left in a favorable way and the right is ALWAYS the bad guys.....there is difference....


If Obama wasn't obsessed about the top 2%, he's negotiate...he wants to raise taxes NOW and not approve any cuts in spending until 2014.....thats unacceptable...

House Speaker John Boehner offered to raise tax rates on millionaires—not just revenue, but actual income tax rates—is a big deal because it means that Boehner is acknowledging to his caucus a reality many of them refuse to accept: that President Obama and the Democrats have enough leverage to raise tax rates and that Republicans are better off cutting a deal than falling on their swords to protect the rich. But an even bigger deal is Boehner’s reported willingness to extend the debt ceiling for a year and in so doing concede the Republicans’ greatest point of leverage (albeit in exchange for meaningful cuts to entitlement programs such as Medicare and Medicaid, and possibly Social Security).
http://www.businessweek.com/article...ig-concessions-may-not-avert-the-fiscal-cliff
So you really don't know wtf you're talking about do you.

Now who is not negotiating...? Where are the cuts in spending, after all, we all KNOW thats the real problem, we can't tax ourselves into prosperity.
 
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