Good read on why pundits were wrong

Darth Omar

Russian asset
The debate quickly coalesced around how many weeks he would last. Weeks turned into months, as he quickly took the lead in the polls. The debate then shifted to how soon he would become this cycle’s Herman Cain, who led in the polls briefly in 2011 before collapsing, followed by confident predictions about why his insensitive comments about Megyn Kelly, John McCain and a variety of minority groups would lead to his downfall. At the end of 2015, he had led in the polls for months. In December, I gave him a 25 percent chance of becoming the nominee, and remember questioning whether I really wanted to be that far out of step with the overall punditry’s view of his candidacy.

As we moved into the primary season, we debated just how low the ceiling on his poll numbers would be, why he would begin to lose as candidates dropped out, why his continued losses in debates (in the eyes of pundits) would tank his chances of winning, why his followers wouldn’t show up to vote, how various states wouldn’t prove to be well-suited for him, and so forth. I know. I made some of these arguments myself. Yet he managed to outlast 16 other candidates and clinched the Republican nomination in May.

We – by we, I mean online commentators – seem to have learned nothing from all of this. Since Trump’s nomination, we’ve heard that Hillary Clinton would wrap up the race after Trump’s comment about Judge Gonzalo Curiel, or after Sanders endorsed Clinton, or after Trump’s supposedly disastrous convention. We’ve heard about how he is effectively stuck at 40 percent in the polls and would have a hard time pulling ahead.

Now we are in the post-convention phase of the campaign. Trump leads by .2 percent in the RCP Average and has cleared 44 percent of the vote. FiveThirtyEight gives Trump a 46.1 percent chance of winning overall and a 54.5 percent chance of winning on Election Day, if things look then the way they do today. Yet we continue to hear arguments as to why he just won’t win: She’ll move into the lead after her convention, or after the debates, or when people go into the polls and have a final soul-searching moment.

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At a certain point, the goalposts have got to stop moving. It should be obvious by this point that, yes, there really is a winning Trump coalition with a non-trivial chance of coming together. I don’t think the evidence compels a conclusion that Trump is going to win, but the fact that he really might do so strikes me as undeniable.

Nevertheless, echoing the commentary about the Brexit vote in England, there seems to be vehement resistance to serious suggestions that Trump might emerge victorious. Even among analysts who concede there’s a real chance Trump can win, almost all of them seem to think Clinton will eventually pull it out. This is the equivalent of everyone concluding that the opening possession in a game is determined by a coin toss, but then unanimously declaring that the coin will come up heads.

I think there are two factors at work here. First, as I noted back in June, there’s a real tendency toward groupthink among the pundits. This most likely stems from the fact that both liberal and conservative intellectuals dislike Trump. For many, the prospect of a Trump presidency remains unthinkable. Given this, many go looking for arguments to confirm their pre-existing biases that Trump won’t win. Since no one actually has a crystal ball, it is unsurprising that people are able to find those arguments.

To really do this well, though, people should be looking for arguments as to why the outcome they dislike will happen – a quest that is, admittedly, made more difficult by the fact that no one, right or left, is actually making such arguments. The bottom line here is that when people say, “I don’t think Trump will win,” what they often mean is, “God, I sure hope he doesn’t.”

Second, I don’t think people fully appreciate just how damaged Clinton is as a candidate. It is true, I think, that Republicans have nominated the one candidate whose flaws can neutralize Clinton’s downsides. I think Republicans get this. But I don’t think Democrats realize that they have a candidate whose flaws neutralize Trump’s.

For example, pages have been written about Trump’s atrocious favorable ratings, which currently sit at 36.3 percent positive, 56.6 percent negative. But Clinton’s favorable ratings are not much better: She has a 38.4 percent positive rating and a 55.4 percent negative rating. That difference isn’t exactly meaningless, but it comes close.

What’s happened is that, amazingly, this race has been transformed into a race between a generic Republican and a generic Democrat. Right now, the so-called “fundamentals” of economic growth, presidential approval and incumbency point toward a slight Republican advantage. The polls simply reflect this.

The point here is not that Trump is guaranteed to win. Clinton maintains a large advertising and organizational advantage over Trump. But she has already dumped $50 million in unanswered advertising on his head, with little movement in the polls.

It is also 100 percent true that this is the middle of a convention bounce. I completely agree that the polls aren’t predictive right now, and that we should check back in September, see who is leading then, and by how much. To use a morbid analogy I’m fond of, if I were in a car wreck, woke up from a coma in December, and found out that Clinton had won by eight points, I would not be at all shocked. She may well emerge from her convention strong and jump out to a lead, and not look back. At the same time, however, I wouldn’t be completely surprised if she gets no bounce, and Trump doesn’t look back.

Trump’s bounce is a sign that his campaign is getting some things right. It wasn’t guaranteed he would get one – see John Kerry in 2004 and Mitt Romney in 2012. Likewise, it isn’t guaranteed that Clinton will get one – see George H.W. Bush in 1992.

All it means is that people who thought he was such a bad candidate that he could never get a bounce – or that he was forever stuck at 40 percent – were off, once again. It doesn’t mean that the naysayers will continue to be off, nor does it mean that Trump has some sort of magical powers that we mere mortals can’t understand. It simply suggests that our internalized biases continue to skew our analysis, and that we have to come up with some way to correct for these.

No one really knows where the race is going to be in a week, to say nothing of where it will be in November. What I do know is that if you still don’t believe Trump has a very real chance of winning this, you are deeply in denial.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/07/26/where_the_race_stands_--_post-rnc_edition.html

Pretty good synopsis on why/how the pundits whiffed on Trumps ascendancy: basically, the thought of a Trump presidency is unpalatable to many commentators, on both sides, so they would form arguments that confirmed their bias.
 
Its a choice between a not-particularly brilliant President with the usual subservience towards Wall Street, 'Israel' and God knows what and, on the other hand, the reduction of America to a world laughing-stock under a madman. My money is on the latter in the current mood of irrationality everywhere.
 
Its a choice between a not-particularly brilliant President with the usual subservience towards Wall Street, 'Israel' and God knows what and, on the other hand, the reduction of America to a world laughing-stock under a madman. My money is on the latter in the current mood of irrationality everywhere.

What you call irrationally is a bloodless global revolution. I thought the left was all about revolution.
 
Darth....I mean I appreciate the intent of the Article but it's sort of a "Well no shit, thank you Captain Obvious.".

I think that most people here, left, right and middle, would agree that it seems to be that the main function of political pundits is not to inform us about the political process but to insult our intelligence.

For example, with the change in format and personalities I have stopped watching Meet the Press and Sunday Morning This Week as they have transmutated from public service news shows to a gaggle of arrogant DC insiders with Mickey Mouse degrees who patronize me and insult my intelligence. CBS's "Face the Nation" is still hanging on their with Bob Schaefer but he can't last forever and I'm pretty sure that CBS will follow NBC and ABC's lead and find some arrogant telegenic asshole who's greatest asset is talking down to people like they are stupid.

I mean "Why the pundits are wrong"? Who gives a rats ass? They're fucking stupid. That's why. Do you actually expect them to be right?!
 
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Second, I don’t think people fully appreciate just how damaged Clinton is as a candidate. It is true, I think, that Republicans have nominated the one candidate whose flaws can neutralize Clinton’s downsides. I think Republicans get this. But I don’t think Democrats realize that they have a candidate whose flaws neutralize Trump’s.
fear and loathing stalk the electorate. which candidate is the lesser shittyness ?
Stacks of awfulness are espoused by the pundits - the electorate cowers in the corner, forced to make a choice.
There ain't no good guys -just the bad guys (woman); pick a poison and hope the nation survives
 
What you call irrationally is a bloodless global revolution. I thought the left was all about revolution.
Oh God Darth...you really need to read some books on political science just so you'll understand why we roll our eyes at some of the dumb things you say. I would suggest starting with Machiavelli's the Prince. The Art of War would be my second suggestion. Plato's Republic would be third. Those are introductory books. Will teach you the basics. For more advance reading I would suggest "The Social Contract" by Rousseau. The Federalist Papers by Hamilton, Jay and Madison. Democracy in American (DeTocqueville) and for more contemporary reading The Origins of the Political Order (Fukuyama) and Manufacturing Consent (Noam Chomsky).

To also force you to understand that their are different ways to view government and economics you should probably read the Communist Manifesto (Marx) and Challengers to Capitalism (Gurley).

I mean you're a bright guy but when you make comments like this then political operatives just nod their head with a Cheshire grin and say "Yup...we hooked another prole who doesn't have a clue what were up to.".
 
Its a choice between a not-particularly brilliant President with the usual subservience towards Wall Street, 'Israel' and God knows what and, on the other hand, the reduction of America to a world laughing-stock under a madman. My money is on the latter in the current mood of irrationality everywhere.

Many places already laugh at us because we have so many morons that voted to elect someone based on skin color and now put someone up for election based on having a vagina.
 
Oh God Darth...you really need to read some books on political science just so you'll understand why we roll our eyes at some of the dumb things you say. I would suggest starting with Machiavelli's the Prince. The Art of War would be my second suggestion. Plato's Republic would be third. Those are introductory books. Will teach you the basics. For more advance reading I would suggest "The Social Contract" by Rousseau. The Federalist Papers by Hamilton, Jay and Madison. Democracy in American (DeTocqueville) and for more contemporary reading The Origins of the Political Order (Fukuyama) and Manufacturing Consent (Noam Chomsky).

To also force you to understand that their are different ways to view government and economics you should probably read the Communist Manifesto (Marx) and Challengers to Capitalism (Gurley).

I mean you're a bright guy but when you make comments like this then political operatives just nod their head with a Cheshire grin and say "Yup...we hooked another prole who doesn't have a clue what were up to.".

Perhaps you should read some things on how to be man instead of a puss that allows his wife to control him like a trained monkey. Hard to listen to advice from someone that admits his wife wears the pants and controls him like yours controls you.
 
Perhaps you should read some things on how to be man instead of a puss that allows his wife to control him like a trained monkey. Hard to listen to advice from someone that admits his wife wears the pants and controls him like yours controls you.
Speaking of proles. Look, when I am interested in your advice on how to be a man I shall give it to you.
 
Oh God Darth...you really need to read some books on political science just so you'll understand why we roll our eyes at some of the dumb things you say. I would suggest starting with Machiavelli's the Prince. The Art of War would be my second suggestion. Plato's Republic would be third. Those are introductory books. Will teach you the basics. For more advance reading I would suggest "The Social Contract" by Rousseau. The Federalist Papers by Hamilton, Jay and Madison. Democracy in American (DeTocqueville) and for more contemporary reading The Origins of the Political Order (Fukuyama) and Manufacturing Consent (Noam Chomsky).

To also force you to understand that their are different ways to view government and economics you should probably read the Communist Manifesto (Marx) and Challengers to Capitalism (Gurley).

I mean you're a bright guy but when you make comments like this then political operatives just nod their head with a Cheshire grin and say "Yup...we hooked another prole who doesn't have a clue what were up to.".


No pictures, so he won't bother, lol.
 
Speaking of proles. Look, when I am interested in your advice on how to be a man I shall give it to you.

When you're man enough to stop being a puss controlled by your wife, you can give advice. Until then, keep wearing your leash and being that trained monkey.
 
Oh God Darth...you really need to read some books on political science just so you'll understand why we roll our eyes at some of the dumb things you say. I would suggest starting with Machiavelli's the Prince. The Art of War would be my second suggestion. Plato's Republic would be third. Those are introductory books. Will teach you the basics. For more advance reading I would suggest "The Social Contract" by Rousseau. The Federalist Papers by Hamilton, Jay and Madison. Democracy in American (DeTocqueville) and for more contemporary reading The Origins of the Political Order (Fukuyama) and Manufacturing Consent (Noam Chomsky).

To also force you to understand that their are different ways to view government and economics you should probably read the Communist Manifesto (Marx) and Challengers to Capitalism (Gurley).

I mean you're a bright guy but when you make comments like this then political operatives just nod their head with a Cheshire grin and say "Yup...we hooked another prole who doesn't have a clue what were up to.".

Well Mott, now that you've enlightened us on how enlightened you are, maybe you can tell the class why the upheaval in our domestic politics [actually here and abroad] can't be described as a 'revolution'.

In other words, how do we know you aren't full of shit lol?
 
When you're man enough to stop being a puss controlled by your wife, you can give advice. Until then, keep wearing your leash and being that trained monkey.
The day my wife is as stupid as you I'll listen to you but since that is probably never going to happen what the hell is your point?
 
Well Mott, now that you've enlightened us on how enlightened you are, maybe you can tell the class why the upheaval in our domestic politics [actually here and abroad] can't be described as a 'revolution'.

In other words, how do we know you aren't full of shit lol?
Easy. It's not. A revolution is where the political order of a nation is overthrown in a short period of time. We are seeing reforms and changes to our political process that are simply part of the process and always have been. The political order is still in place and doing just fine. The political process is sure going through a bump in the road but that's not a revolution. We are still a constitutional republic and no serious political party in this nation is advocating that we be something else. Now demanding that we be something else, thatis a different form of government, would be Revolutionary.

I only know of one person who is calling for Revolution. Skidmark, and one man does not a Revolution make. If you don't believe me just ask Skidmark how much success he's had in overthrowing Mississippi!
 
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Easy. It's not. A revolution is where the political order of a nation is overthrown in a short period of time. We are seeing reforms and changes to our political process that are simply part of the process and always have been. The political order is still in place and doing just fine. The political process is sure going through a bump in the road but that's not a revolution. We are still a constitutional republic and no serious political party in this nation is advocating that we be something else. Now demanding that we be something else, thatis a different form of government, would be Revolutionary.

I only know of one person who is calling for Revolution. Skidmark, and one man does not a Revolution make. If you don't believe me just ask Skidmark how much success he's had in overthrowing Mississippi!

Do you militate against colloquiallisms generally or just in specific instances?
 
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