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Taft2016 said:
I don't know how much the folks here read, but this is about the best thing I've read on the antebellum south.

https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...i=gmfZUsXkG-bJsQTy0oG4DA&ved=0CK4BEPMCMAk4vgE

It covers a lot of topics, but as to slavery I'll give a summation:

Most slaves (probably more than 85% of them) were owned by the wealthy landowners. Abusing, beating, neglecting, maltreating slaves, splitting up slave families, was considered the behavior of a low-class individual. For instance, a man who had to beat his slaves to control them was considered a man who could not control his own household. Southern society at this time bore a strong resemblance to Victorian society in England, so ostracization from southern society was greatly feared.

Were slaves abused? Of course, but generally they were among the small number who were held by non-wealthy landowners.

So both stories are true, the degree to their truths lies in the numbers.
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It was certainly no picnic being poor in Victorian England. In the North the cotton mills especially were grim places to work and child labour was common. People didn't live very long so they weren't really any better off than slaves, many died from consumption or TB as it's known today and many others died from just sheer physical exhaustion.
 
Dantès said:
no one ever did anything untoward because we all know "social ostracism" was so great and worked so well
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There's no discussing things intelligently with idiots who run completely to one side or the other.

I already said both stories told are true, but that's not enough for you, is it? You just have to have it all your way or you'll hold your little breath and stamp your little feet, depsite what a Pulitzer Prize finalist academic has to say on the subject.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
It was certainly no picnic being poor in Victorian England. In the North the cotton mills especially were grim places to work and child labour was common. People didn't live very long so they weren't really any better off than slaves, many died from consumption or TB as it's known today and many others died from just sheer physical exhaustion.
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Or in the American industrial north either.

If a German immigrant father was disfigured or permanently disabled in a factory accident, what happened to him and his family? Who took care of them? The answer was simple; no one did.

Not that slavery was a day at the beach either, but at least they didn't have to worry about starvation or homelessness. A disabled father could generally count on being cared for until he died along with his family.
 
Taft2016 said:
There's no discussing things intelligently with idiots who run completely to one side or the other.

I already said both stories told are true, but that's not enough for you, is it? You just have to have it all your way or you'll hold your little breath and stamp your little feet, depsite what a Pulitzer Prize finalist academic has to say on the subject.
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Dantes is another superannuated Marxist, who is well beyond his sell by date. He is just a sycophantic arselicker who acts as Darla's attack dog but his teeth fell out years ago.
 
Taft2016 said:
I don't know how much the folks here read, but this is about the best thing I've read on the antebellum south.

https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...i=gmfZUsXkG-bJsQTy0oG4DA&ved=0CK4BEPMCMAk4vgE

It covers a lot of topics, but as to slavery I'll give a summation:

Most slaves (probably more than 85% of them) were owned by the wealthy landowners. Abusing, beating, neglecting, maltreating slaves, splitting up slave families, was considered the behavior of a low-class individual. For instance, a man who had to beat his slaves to control them was considered a man who could not control his own household. Southern society at this time bore a strong resemblance to Victorian society in England, so ostracization from southern society was greatly feared.

Were slaves abused? Of course, but generally they were among the small number who were held by non-wealthy landowners.

So both stories are true, the degree to their truths lies in the numbers.
Click to expand...

That looks pretty good I'll see if there is a second hand copy to be had online.
 
Taft2016 said:
Or in the American industrial north either.

If a German immigrant father was disfigured or permanently disabled in a factory accident, what happened to him and his family? Who took care of them? The answer was simple; no one did.

Not that slavery was a day at the beach either, but at least they didn't have to worry about starvation or homelessness. A disabled father could generally count on being cared for until he died along with his family.
Click to expand...

At least in the South, for what it was worth, they didn't have to worry about freezing to death or choking from the pollution of millions of coal fires and industrial boilers and furnaces.
 
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I acknowledge the plight of the industrial slaves and can at the same time acknowledge the immoral conditions of slavery.

It is idiotic to make the comments made by Tom and Taft.

Oh those ungrateful slaves, they should be greatful to their master!
 
I applaud the efforts of some here to try to educate the uneducable. You have to understand that the likes of Snarla and Dantes and Desh have been educated in left wing circles. They "know what they know" and have no room for anything else.

In their minds, the only way to talk about slavery is to paint white people in the worst possible light. When you say "not all slaves were beaten" the left immediately calls you a defender of slavery. It is no different than the rape debate. When you point out that there are instances of innocent men being accused of rape, or that women should be really careful about putting themselves in dangerous situations the left immediately calls you a "rape apologist".

Why is this? Because they aren't interested in actual debate. They are only interested in discussing things on THEIR TERMS. And if you don't discuss things on THEIR TERMS and the way THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT THEM, then you are a racist, homophobic, child hating white guy.
 
Sardonic said:
I acknowledge the plight of the industrial slaves and can at the same time acknowledge the immoral conditions of slavery.

It is idiotic to make the comments made by Tom and Taft.

Oh those ungrateful slaves, they should be greatful to their master!
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Those Victorian peasants forgot to exercise their white privilege, silly people.
 
Sardonic said:
It is idiotic to make the comments made by Tom and Taft.

Oh those ungrateful slaves, they should be greatful to their master!
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Are you capable of having a discussion without putting words into peoples' mouths, and then arguing against that false premise?

No?

Didn't think so.
 
Sardonic said:
Jeebus...reread the thread

Do you know what sarcasm is?
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Do I have to reread the thread to find something that was never written...

or...

Do I have to reread the thread to recognize some alleged sarcasm?

or...

Both?

You're not making any sense.
 
Sardonic said:
I am, apparently you don't read your own screed or Tom's
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So apparently it is verboten to say that the treatment of slaves in the South was just a little more nuanced and complex than the bowdlerised PC version where blacks were without exception all noble and honest whilst the whites were all rotten to the core. I have ordered that book and you would do well to get a copy as well, not that you will of course.
 
This is absolutely amazing. It isn't something how little prodding sexist racists like Tom, Taft, Ila, etc, need in order to spill the black vile from their ugly spleens?

Keep it coming boys, I've got this one bookmarked.

Tom is the dangerous one. Posters like Mott and others actually pretend this guy is a reasonable moderate. That's what makes him so dangerous - everyone knows ILA and Taft are lunatics.

That's why Tom is a monster and why i will always keep prodding him to show it. And he wants to. He really, really, really wants to. So it's easy.
 
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