Go Ahead, Make Our Day

It's been fun but I'm going to watch a movie from Netflix, and oldie from Hitchcock called Under Capricorn. I'll let you know if it's any good.

Yeah, I am done trying to educate him, too! I have to leave my warm house and buy cat food! Have fun! I love Hitchcock!
 
Yeah, I am done trying to educate him, too! I have to leave my warm house and buy cat food! Have fun! I love Hitchcock!

You're gonna have to bring more to the table than this if you're gonna educate me. Sour grapes. LOL
 
I am still a Christian because I celebrate Easter and Christmas, even though I don't believe that Jesus was resurrected from the dead and is God. I do not believe in the Trinity, but because I obey the Golden Rule, I am still a Christian, right?
 
I am still a Christian because I celebrate Easter and Christmas, even though I don't believe that Jesus was resurrected from the dead and is God. I do not believe in the Trinity, but because I obey the Golden Rule, I am still a Christian, right?

That explains everything. You're a Christian in name only. You don't really believe the scriptures. Never mind.
 
Did Paul believe Jesus was the Messiah? Because if he did, he was no longer a Jew.

FYI Damo was raised for 18 years as a fundamentalist Christian. Now he's a Buddhist. Are you going to say "no, he's still a Christian."?

Not true... Paul was born a Jew, but became a Roman citizen and later confessed Christ. But he was always a Jew from birth- you're an idiot to argue otherwise.

" 'As the Jewish leaders are well aware, I was given a thorough Jewish training from my earliest childhood among my own people and in Jerusalem. If they would admit it, they know that I have been a member of the Pharisees, the strictest sect of our religion. . . ' " (Acts 26:4-5, NLT)
" 'I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city (Jerusalem) at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day. . .' " (Acts 22:3, KJV)

Note Paul is not himself called a Gentile.

But the Lord said, 'Go and do what I say. For Saul is my chosen instrument to take my message to the Gentiles and to kings, as well as to the people of Israel. And I will show him how much he must suffer for me.'" (Acts 9:15-16, NLT)

Note that he takes the message of Christ to the Synagogs as his right being Jewish.

"Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus. And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God. . . .But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ." (Acts 9:19-20, 22, KJV)
 
Can you tell us when that happened? Where is the scripture telling us that?

The most direct time that Jesus said he was the Christ was before the Sanhedrin.

Mark 14:60-64

60 Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, “Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?” 61 But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer.

Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?”

62 “I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

63 The high priest tore his clothes. “Why do we need any more witnesses?” he asked. 64 “You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?”
 
Another time Jesus claimed to be the messiah can be found in John, chapter 4...

Here are verses 21-26

21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”

26 Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”
 
Simply put you are wrong- Jesus, like Paul and the 12 other disciples were all (1) Jews. Judaism WAS the faith they practiced. Being born Jews was their state of being.

(1):"And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.(2): Now the names of the twelve apostles are these:...(5)These twelve Jesus sent forth and commanded them, saying, go not into the way of the Gentiles and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not (6): but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (7)And as ye go preach saying 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand'"

(2) Jesus was always considered Rabbi by his disciples ... He never called himself a Christian.

“Rabbi” (pronounced “rah-bee” in Hebrew) literally means “my master.” It comes from the word “rav,” which means “master.”
 
Now if you want to be sure he believed himself to be something other than just human, you need to look again in John.

Chapter 8 to be exact.

First he stops people from killing the adulterous woman...

Then:
12 When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

13 The Pharisees challenged him, “Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid.”

14 Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. 15 You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. 16 But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. 17 In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. 18 I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”

19 Then they asked him, “Where is your father?”

“You do not know me or my Father,” Jesus replied. “If you knew me, you would know my Father also.” 20 He spoke these words while teaching in the temple courts near the place where the offerings were put. Yet no one seized him, because his hour had not yet come.

21 Once more Jesus said to them, “I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come.”

22 This made the Jews ask, “Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, ‘Where I go, you cannot come’?”

23 But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

25 “Who are you?” they asked.

“Just what I have been telling you from the beginning,” Jesus replied. 26 “I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is trustworthy, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.”

27 They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father. 28 So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up[a] the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29 The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.” 30 Even as he spoke, many believed in him.

In this passage Jesus clearly states that he is from above and who his father is...
 
Simply put you are wrong- Jesus, like Paul and the 12 other disciples were all (1) Jews. Judaism WAS the faith they practiced. Being born Jews was their state of being.

(1):"And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.(2): Now the names of the twelve apostles are these:...(5)These twelve Jesus sent forth and commanded them, saying, go not into the way of the Gentiles and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not (6): but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (7)And as ye go preach saying 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand'"

(2) Jesus was always considered Rabbi by his disciples ... He never called himself a Christian.

“Rabbi” (pronounced “rah-bee” in Hebrew) literally means “my master.” It comes from the word “rav,” which means “master.”

Which doesn't change that the beliefs were different. Jesus preached that to believe in him was your salvation, absolutely not a Jewish belief.

Basically, what you are saying here is that the form was the same, however scripture clearly shows the belief had changed. What Jesus taught was something different.
 
Now if you want to be sure he believed himself to be something other than just human, you need to look again in John.

Chapter 8 to be exact.

First he stops people from killing the adulterous woman...

Then:


In this passage Jesus clearly states that he is from above and who his father is...

So, according to their logic, they aren't Christians, they are just another sect of Judaism. There are the sect that believe the Prophecy has been fulfilled in Jesus and the others sect believes the Messiah is still to come. They should therefore not call themselves Christians, any longer, but should refer to themselves as Jews that believe Jesus is the Messiah.
 
So, according to their logic, they aren't Christians, they are just another sect of Judaism. There are the sect that believe the Prophecy has been fulfilled in Jesus and the others sect believes the Messiah is still to come. They should therefore not call themselves Christians, any longer, but should refer to themselves as Jews that believe Jesus is the Messiah.

If they want to see it that way then they can. There are messianic Jews today who believe that Jesus was the messiah yet still follow the old forms. It would make more sense to join that religion than to join a current Christian church who have abandoned many of the old forms.

This would ignore books like Romans that make it clear that such things like kosher eating and other of the "cleansing" rules were abolished through cleansing by Christ. But there is nothing in those books that say you can't do that as well.

Pretty much belief that Christ is your savior and a diligent attempt to turn away from sin is about all that is necessary to find salvation...

(Remember that repent is different than we see it today, the word used means to completely change mind and action, not just to regret the sin).
 
If they want to see it that way then they can. There are messianic Jews today who believe that Jesus was the messiah yet still follow the old forms. It would make more sense to join that religion than to join a current Christian church who have abandoned many of the old forms.

This would ignore books like Romans that make it clear that such things like kosher eating and other of the "cleansing" rules were abolished through cleansing by Christ. But there is nothing in those books that say you can't do that as well.

Pretty much belief that Christ is your savior and a diligent attempt to turn away from sin is about all that is necessary to find salvation...

(Remember that repent is different than we see it today, the word used means to completely change mind and action, not just to regret the sin).

Yes, this is what I have read. I read an article that stated Messianic Jews resulted from Hebrew Christians who wanted to get back in touch with their Jewish customs. I wish I could find it. It was a good article. I have also read some great books on the reasons the Jews did not consider Jesus the Messiah.
 
The one verse that I find that most Christians (and Buddhists for that matter, different verse in a different book but the meaning is basically the same) have trouble with is this one:

Mark 11:25-26
And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.”
 
BTW - Ice Dancer is one of the more knowledgeable people on the Bible on the board as well...

It's quite an interesting mix.

The Buddhist
poet
and Ice Dancer...

:D
 
The one verse that I find that most Christians (and Buddhists for that matter, different verse in a different book but the meaning is basically the same) have trouble with is this one:

Mark 11:25-26
And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.”

Why do you have trouble with it?
 
I am still a Christian because I celebrate Easter and Christmas, even though I don't believe that Jesus was resurrected from the dead and is God. I do not believe in the Trinity, but because I obey the Golden Rule, I am still a Christian, right?

I think the Golden Rule says it all, and that's what some of these people forget. For them it's all about cherry-picking verses instead of treating others the way you want to be treated.
 
Back
Top