GDP: US Economy grows at fastest pace in nearly two years. God Bless Bidenomics.
- Thread starter Joe Capitalist
- Start date
I consider a policy a policy...not slapping your brand on something that already existed and was devised by people much smarter than you.
Those are NOT Conservatives policies.
You've spent more time here than anyone else arguing AGAINST the EPA and OSHA, now you're trying to claim them? Since when are they yours?
Neither of those would have ever passed without liberal support.
I'm talking about a policy that is all yours, that didn't come from liberals first, that you didn't need liberals to help pass.
So like a typical Conservative idiot, you expect everyone else to do your work for you so that you can claim credit.
Fuck that and fuck you, loser. Get some good ideas and then maybe we can have a real conversation about your beliefs and how fucking stupid they are.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Actually both passed because of Conservative support. The EPA was a Conservative's idea.
https://www.epa.gov/history/origins-epa
OSHA, likewise was a Conservative idea and supported
https://www.osha.gov/osha50/
In fact, Democrat and Leftist groups in labor and industry were the most vocal opposition to both agencies.
https://www.dol.gov/general/aboutdol/history/osha
So, you are believing radical Leftist lies and propaganda... The radical Left doesn't give a shit about the average person. To them, they are nothing but tools to be used in the gaining of power.
Ah, so then it wasn't their bill. They just signed onto it after liberals did all the hard work of writing it. Conservatives didn't write it because Conservatives are functionally illiterate morons.
All Conservatives do is lie. They lie about everything because they are betting on the fact that the person they are lying to won't take the time to fact check the lies. The link you provided only showed Nixon signing the bill, and more Democrats than Republicans voted for it.
However, this isn't a policy that is yours, nor was it devised by Conservatives and passed without liberal support.
Truth is what would eventually become the OSH act of 1970 had started years prior, during LBJ and was enthusiastically backed by unions before Conservatives came along and ruined it, like they always do.
From your link:
So once again, not your idea. An idea you took from someone else, made shitty in your own way, and then claimed as yours even though you still needed 172 Democrats to vote for it in the House.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Wrong. Nixon proposed both to Congress and then worked to get Congress to pass bills to make both a reality. Nixon's reasons were self-serving and to get reelected. The Democrats were apathetic and divided on the subject. Nixon brought them together to pass the bill that became the EPA. The same thing is true of forming OSHA. In fact, Democrats, particularly in manufacturing and industrial states they controlled, both at the federal and state level in the aftermath of OSHA passage actively worked to undermine the bill because of pressure from business, industry, and unions.
The fact that you can turn on your tap and get clean drinking water is a testament to the success of EPA. Or clean air to breathe.
OSHA? The same. That your boss can’t force you to take risks to your life just to do your job.
Know why regulations exist? Because of abuses. No need for them if everyone did the responsible thing. But they don’t.
Gardner the Nazis question demonstrates his lack of intelligence. The EPA is not a 'policy' it's an agency. OSHA is not a 'policy', it's an agency. The first is based on the PRINCIPLE that government should monitor and regulate environmental issues. The second is based on the PRINCIPLE that government should monitor and regulate workplace safety. The executive branch is responsible for administering the laws. This basic lack of understanding about how government works is revealing. It seems to be a condition most often observed in the Trump cult.
What Libertarians, and apparently some others believe is that government should not monitor or regulate anything. Which is probably good for my desire to build a meth plant, dump the chemicals in some river nearby my plant, hire child labor and make them work 12 hour days seven days a week, and then sell my product on the streets, making sure my dealers are fully armed with assault rifles. Libertarian utopia!!!
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Both started off as necessary and good things. They have devolved into massive bureaucracies with a zero-tolerance mindset today, however. What were once necessary and useful polices are becoming nitpicking and attempts to eliminate all pollution and make workplaces 100% safe. Both goals are fool's errands and the EPA and OSHA today are crippling the economy and doing nothing to improve the environment or safety.
Phyllis Diller
Was it me?
is the military totally worth it?
Complete and utter bullshit. Quit posting from ignorance. You only look more foolish than you already are.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Two EPA examples:
During the Clinton administration, the EPA changed the amount of allowable arsenic in drinking water 50 ppb to 10 ppb. At 50 ppb there is no discernable health risk to the public. 1000 times that at 50 ppm is a huge health risk as it is in Bangladesh.
The ONLY reason the EPA changed the limit was because at the time new test equipment had been put on the market that could accurately measure down to the new, and absolutely miniscule, limit of 10 ppb.
For most of the Western US, who get their water from ground water and wells, this new limit saw water companies, double, triple, and even quadruple people's water bills overnight to pay for the new--and very expensive--test equipment along with new and very expensive filtration systems to remove arsenic that was often just a few ppb above the limit. Here in the Phoenix area, most ground water had 12 ppb arsenic in it.
So, costing consumers billions, water companies millions, the EPA lowered a standard that did NOTHING to improve public health or the environment. You tell me why.
The next is one that the EPA has tried repeatedly to put in place but hasn't managed to do. Allowable ozone pollution is currently set at 75 ppb. The EPA wanted to lower that to 70 ppb, a drop of just five (5) parts per billion. The annual cost of this was estimated at $100 billion nationally. The EPA claimed this insignificant drop in ozone would result in--magically-- a reduction in asthma deaths and medical treatments equaling--ready for this?--$100 billion a year!
Congress critters called the EPA in to justify their claims. You know what the EPA did? They stonewalled Congress and refused to show them the data they used to get that number. The plan was dropped for the time being as the EPA realized they couldn't bluff their way into getting this new regulation in place. But they are still trying...
You see this?
That's on every five gallon bucket in America now.
Every year 8 to 15 small children drown falling head first into a five gallon bucket. The CPSC wanted to stop that. So, they wrote a rule that crossed sticks would be mandated on the mouth of buckets to prevent this. Users in the review said that would make the buckets difficult or impossible to use the way they did, on construction sites for example, and that they'd just smash out the sticks and use the bucket as before.
The CPSC responded they'd make that illegal.
The bucket manufacturers said it would cost them billions a year and contribute about 1% to inflation for them to make buckets with the CPSC design. There was so much pushback that the CPSC compromised and had manufacturers add that warning label to all five gallon buckets. Today 8 to 15 small children drown in five gallon buckets...
Two EPA examples:
During the Clinton administration, the EPA changed the amount of allowable arsenic in drinking water 50 ppb to 10 ppb. At 50 ppb there is no discernable health risk to the public. 1000 times that at 50 ppm is a huge health risk as it is in Bangladesh.
The ONLY reason the EPA changed the limit was because at the time new test equipment had been put on the market that could accurately measure down to the new, and absolutely miniscule, limit of 10 ppb.
For most of the Western US, who get their water from ground water and wells, this new limit saw water companies, double, triple, and even quadruple people's water bills overnight to pay for the new--and very expensive--test equipment along with new and very expensive filtration systems to remove arsenic that was often just a few ppb above the limit. Here in the Phoenix area, most ground water had 12 ppb arsenic in it.
So, costing consumers billions, water companies millions, the EPA lowered a standard that did NOTHING to improve public health or the environment. You tell me why.
The next is one that the EPA has tried repeatedly to put in place but hasn't managed to do. Allowable ozone pollution is currently set at 75 ppb. The EPA wanted to lower that to 70 ppb, a drop of just five (5) parts per billion. The annual cost of this was estimated at $100 billion nationally. The EPA claimed this insignificant drop in ozone would result in--magically-- a reduction in asthma deaths and medical treatments equaling--ready for this?--$100 billion a year!
Congress critters called the EPA in to justify their claims. You know what the EPA did? They stonewalled Congress and refused to show them the data they used to get that number. The plan was dropped for the time being as the EPA realized they couldn't bluff their way into getting this new regulation in place. But they are still trying...
You see this?
That's on every five gallon bucket in America now.
Every year 8 to 15 small children drown falling head first into a five gallon bucket. The CPSC wanted to stop that. So, they wrote a rule that crossed sticks would be mandated on the mouth of buckets to prevent this. Users in the review said that would make the buckets difficult or impossible to use the way they did, on construction sites for example, and that they'd just smash out the sticks and use the bucket as before.
The CPSC responded they'd make that illegal.
The bucket manufacturers said it would cost them billions a year and contribute about 1% to inflation for them to make buckets with the CPSC design. There was so much pushback that the CPSC compromised and had manufacturers add that warning label to all five gallon buckets. Today 8 to 15 small children drown in five gallon buckets...
First of all, if you did your homework, there is considerable health risk of 50ppb arsenic, especially in the very young. There are studies that also indicate chronic exposure even at 10ppb results in elevated risk.Your claim that the only reason they dropped it to 10ppb is because they could now measure it at that level is bullshit. That’s not how their rules are promulgated.
I looked up your claim of the 5 gallon bucket thing, which dates from 30+ years ago. The number of drownings I found were multiple times higher than yours and I found nothing about crossed sticks. What I DID find was a bill passed IN CONGRESS in 1993, to require the stickers.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Bullshit! 50 ppb is nothing and 10 ppb is less than nothing. The EPA will try again and lower that limit to 5 then to 0. They don't give a flying fuck about whether it's necessary, but rather because that's what bureaucracies do to justify their existence.
With the buckets, common sense overruled the bureaucrats at the CPSC. Again, you had a bureaucracy looking at things from a zero tolerance perspective.
You're the sort of moron that thinks these agencies are out to protect you. They may be initially, but after decades they fall into protecting their jobs and justifying their existence and stop looking at what they do from a rational point of view.
https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-...o-Terminate-Rulemaking-On-Five-Gallon-Buckets
https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-...aking-On-Plastic-5-Gallon-Buckets?language=th
This is the stupid that's caused:
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2019/L...n-Buckets-Due-to-Drowning-Hazard-Recall-Alert
And, one of the things this breeds are slimy assholes like this piece of shit:
Disbarred attorney continues to file ADA lawsuits
https://www.abc15.com/news/local-ne...arred-attorney-continues-to-file-ada-lawsuits
This guy had / has a collection of shills on call he can use as "clients" to sue mostly smaller businesses over minor ADA violations that could be handled without a lawsuit. He then gets the business to settle for a fraction of what he's demanding and pays off his shill, then goes to the next business to shake it down. The guy was / is filing literally upwards of a thousand lawsuits a year using convoluted and pickaninny rules and regulations to enrich himself by shaking those businesses down.
Even as he's been smacked down by the courts, he simply changes venue and continues to do it.
The rules are a problem, and shitheads like this liar...err, lawyer, are the result.
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I already read every one of your cited articles. Not a word about some kind of cross stick thing.
Know why there are so many hazard labels these days? It’s not because of overstep by a government agency, it’s because of our overly litigious society. Fear of being sued. Covering one’s ass.
I worked under EPA rules and regs for over 20 years and your claim that they lowered it simply because they could test for it is complete and utter bullshit.
QP!
Verified User
Yes this was very predictable as the impact of adding so much debt will always be greater years later...
QP!
Verified User
Is this the failed argument, that we all laugh about, coming back up again?
The one where you guys first pretend Trump ran a great economy during his reign, that he deserves full credit for, while then saying all the debt put on during that time is the fault of Democrats, as they were the ones actually responsible for the choices that you guys say made the Trump term a success?
If so, i will accept it. We can agree that Nancy Pelosi and not Trump deserves the credit for anything you consider that was done well, during his term.
QP!
Verified User
The problem is you are dumb and thus cannot make a coherent argument.
So now you are saying the Chinese did not like Trump adding over $4T to the debt and that is why they wanted him gone? Are you extending that out to say they released covid to accomplish that?