Fucking Pig Feds, This story has me absolutely disgusted.

I Love America said:
Acetaminophen is a very toxic drug (as is all drugs) if not taken appropriately. Bear in mind that more than 4 grams a day is enough to do significant hepatic damage necessitating the need for admission and the administration of large doses of acetylcysteine. Not a fun endeavor.

As I stated, accurately I might add. If used to treat pain, the risk of addiction to opioids is quite low. I didn't say impossible, just quite low. If they are used to get stoned, then they are quite addictive. There is no maximum dose of opioids. That doesn't mean that you can't take enough to kill you, it just means that for some folks very large doses can be required to alleviate their pain such as oncology patients. If you take a dose given to an end stage oncology patient and give it to an opioid naive patient, it would most likely cause respiratory depression and kill them.

My point stands, IF used for pain, patients have much higher risk from the acetaminophen than the opioids. That is a pharmacological fact.

As much as I think Apple is a complete jerk off on most issues, he is 100% correct on this. You are 1000% wrong.
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Reminds me of that Mark Twain quote, "My father was an amazing man. The older I got, the smarter he got." :)
 
I Love America said:
Acetaminophen is a very toxic drug (as is all drugs) if not taken appropriately. Bear in mind that more than 4 grams a day is enough to do significant hepatic damage necessitating the need for admission and the administration of large doses of acetylcysteine. Not a fun endeavor.

As I stated, accurately I might add. If used to treat pain, the risk of addiction to opioids is quite low. I didn't say impossible, just quite low. If they are used to get stoned, then they are quite addictive. There is no maximum dose of opioids. That doesn't mean that you can't take enough to kill you, it just means that for some folks very large doses can be required to alleviate their pain such as oncology patients. If you take a dose given to an end stage oncology patient and give it to an opioid naive patient, it would most likely cause respiratory depression and kill them.

My point stands, IF used for pain, patients have much higher risk from the acetaminophen than the opioids. That is a pharmacological fact.

As much as I think Apple is a complete jerk off on most issues, he is 100% correct on this. You are 1000% wrong.
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I'm well aware that Apple has pain issues. This isn't the first time this discussion has come up.

Opioids will not cure his problem. I don't blame him for saying he isn't addicted. But he is. Addicted, dependent, or whatever else you want to call it. Over time, he'll need higher and higher doses to alleviate the pain. And if he stops, he'll suffer physical side effects that have nothing to do with his injury. He'll never be able to stop taking them. And they'll never cure his problem.

I'm not going to force anyone to admit to anything they aren't comfortable with. We'll just say he's dependent. That still sucks.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
so again, I ask, how high of a body count is it worth to you?
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What ever it takes to evolve. That's the way life goes. You're not the first and won't be the last to try to prevent the advancement of the human race. The church tried for centuries but eventually lost so you and groups of people like you don't have a chance in hell of succeeding. If you want to give your life for a lost cause that's up to you.
 
Althea said:
I'm well aware that Apple has pain issues. This isn't the first time this discussion has come up.

Opioids will not cure his problem. I don't blame him for saying he isn't addicted. But he is. Addicted, dependent, or whatever else you want to call it. Over time, he'll need higher and higher doses to alleviate the pain. And if he stops, he'll suffer physical side effects that have nothing to do with his injury. He'll never be able to stop taking them. And they'll never cure his problem.

I'm not going to force anyone to admit to anything they aren't comfortable with. We'll just say he's dependent. That still sucks.
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A couple of corrections. First, let's clear up the misunderstanding (??) that people spread about requiring higher and higher doses. I have been taking the same dosage for over 10 years when it was increased from the dosage I had been taking for 5 years previous. Yes, I probably would require higher and higher dosages IF I was taking it to get high and that's the crux of the discussion. A specific dosage counter-acts the pain. If the pain stays the same the dosage will stay the same.

Second, while pain meds will not cure the problem the problem is not curable with today's medical technology. It is due to nerve damage and repairing nerves is not yet possible. Similar to diabetes. Insulin will never cure diabetes but it allows people to function. Unless and until they are able to repair nerve damage there is no reason for me to stop taking opioids so whether I'm dependent or addicted I suppose the point is really moot.

Lastly, there are occasional days when I require less and other days when I require more. If I take a little less I do not go through any type of withdrawal and when I take a little more I do not jump out windows or run down the street naked. :) They are, to use an old saying, a God-send.

My doctor did tell me these drugs are frequently abused and, in a round about way, implied I may occasionally notice a car parked across the street. I told him that should I notice anyone I'd definitely offer them a coffee. :D

In this day and age there is no reason for anyone to be in pain. There is nothing noble about needless suffering.
 
apple0154 said:
Sorry, I forgot you lived in your parent's basement. :( Mea culpa.
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And you would be in error, again.
My parents have been dead, for many years, and I live in the house that me and my wife own.
You really need to stop projectiong your own life onto others.

Now; would you care to explain what a "tax bill" is?
 
apple0154 said:
What ever it takes to evolve. That's the way life goes. You're not the first and won't be the last to try to prevent the advancement of the human race. The church tried for centuries but eventually lost so you and groups of people like you don't have a chance in hell of succeeding. If you want to give your life for a lost cause that's up to you.
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so lets just say that 2% of the US population fights your movement to 'evolve', a body count of 6 million is ok with you?
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
And you would be in error, again.
My parents have been dead, for many years, and I live in the house that me and my wife own.
You really need to stop projectiong your own life onto others.

Now; would you care to explain what a "tax bill" is?
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It is a bill for land tax. The county assesses the house and land and sends a yearly tax bill.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
so lets just say that 2% of the US population fights your movement to 'evolve', a body count of 6 million is ok with you?
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Well, I don't support the other 98% being subjected to the rule of the 2%. Again, you're being illogical. History has shown progress will succeed, regardless.
 
apple0154 said:
Well, I don't support the other 98% being subjected to the rule of the 2%. Again, you're being illogical. History has shown progress will succeed, regardless.
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Anti-Democratic anarchists is all these wanks are. They will do anything to keep any problem from being addressed and want us all to live like they do in Uganda.
 
apple0154 said:
It is a bill for land tax. The county assesses the house and land and sends a yearly tax bill.
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You are referring to our yearly "Property Tax"; but I fail to see what that has to do with your assertion that the Government is going to put me and others like me away and seize my property or what it has to do with the delusional world, that you've created for yourself.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
how does the 2% choosing to remain a sovereign nation of the USA subjecting the other 98% to their rule?
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If the majority want services who are the 2% to stop them?

choosing to create an all supreme and oppressive central government is not progress. that is illogical.
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How are they oppressive? As for supreme, of course. Who should be supreme if not the Federal Government?
 
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