From Nobel Prize Winning Economist Paul Krugman - The Big Dither

FUCK THE POLICE

911 EVERY DAY
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/06/opinion/06krugman.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

The Big Dither

By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: March 5, 2009

Last month, in his big speech to Congress, President Obama argued for bold steps to fix America’s dysfunctional banks. “While the cost of action will be great,” he declared, “I can assure you that the cost of inaction will be far greater, for it could result in an economy that sputters along for not months or years, but perhaps a decade.”

Many analysts agree. But among people I talk to there’s a growing sense of frustration, even panic, over Mr. Obama’s failure to match his words with deeds. The reality is that when it comes to dealing with the banks, the Obama administration is dithering. Policy is stuck in a holding pattern.

Here’s how the pattern works: first, administration officials, usually speaking off the record, float a plan for rescuing the banks in the press. This trial balloon is quickly shot down by informed commentators.

Then, a few weeks later, the administration floats a new plan. This plan is, however, just a thinly disguised version of the previous plan, a fact quickly realized by all concerned. And the cycle starts again.

Why do officials keep offering plans that nobody else finds credible? Because somehow, top officials in the Obama administration and at the Federal Reserve have convinced themselves that troubled assets, often referred to these days as “toxic waste,” are really worth much more than anyone is actually willing to pay for them — and that if these assets were properly priced, all our troubles would go away.

Thus, in a recent interview Tim Geithner, the Treasury secretary, tried to make a distinction between the “basic inherent economic value” of troubled assets and the “artificially depressed value” that those assets command right now. In recent transactions, even AAA-rated mortgage-backed securities have sold for less than 40 cents on the dollar, but Mr. Geithner seems to think they’re worth much, much more.

And the government’s job, he declared, is to “provide the financing to help get those markets working,” pushing the price of toxic waste up to where it ought to be.

What’s more, officials seem to believe that getting toxic waste properly priced would cure the ills of all our major financial institutions. Earlier this week, Ben Bernanke, the Federal Reserve chairman, was asked about the problem of “zombies” — financial institutions that are effectively bankrupt but are being kept alive by government aid. “I don’t know of any large zombie institutions in the U.S. financial system,” he declared, and went on to specifically deny that A.I.G. — A.I.G.! — is a zombie.

This is the same A.I.G. that, unable to honor its promises to pay off other financial institutions when bonds default, has already received $150 billion in aid and just got a commitment for $30 billion more.

The truth is that the Bernanke-Geithner plan — the plan the administration keeps floating, in slightly different versions — isn’t going to fly.

Take the plan’s latest incarnation: a proposal to make low-interest loans to private investors willing to buy up troubled assets. This would certainly drive up the price of toxic waste because it would offer a heads-you-win, tails-we-lose proposition. As described, the plan would let investors profit if asset prices went up but just walk away if prices fell substantially.

But would it be enough to make the banking system healthy? No.

Think of it this way: by using taxpayer funds to subsidize the prices of toxic waste, the administration would shower benefits on everyone who made the mistake of buying the stuff. Some of those benefits would trickle down to where they’re needed, shoring up the balance sheets of key financial institutions. But most of the benefit would go to people who don’t need or deserve to be rescued.

And this means that the government would have to lay out trillions of dollars to bring the financial system back to health, which would, in turn, both ensure a fierce public outcry and add to already serious concerns about the deficit. (Yes, even strong advocates of fiscal stimulus like yours truly worry about red ink.) Realistically, it’s just not going to happen.

So why has this zombie idea — it keeps being killed, but it keeps coming back — taken such a powerful grip? The answer, I fear, is that officials still aren’t willing to face the facts. They don’t want to face up to the dire state of major financial institutions because it’s very hard to rescue an essentially insolvent bank without, at least temporarily, taking it over. And temporary nationalization is still, apparently, considered unthinkable.

But this refusal to face the facts means, in practice, an absence of action. And I share the president’s fears: inaction could result in an economy that sputters along, not for months or years, but for a decade or more.
 
"We will have fits and starts but we will keep trying" Obama said something very close to this when he took office.

I think we may have to nationalize and I think we can make money by doing it correctly.

It may take some conviencing of the public to get it done.
 
"We will have fits and starts but we will keep trying" Obama said something very close to this when he took office.

I think we may have to nationalize and I think we can make money by doing it correctly.

It may take some conviencing of the public to get it done.

Do you think the current shareholders should be wiped out? OR shoulld they be allowed to personally benefit from massive taxpayer cash injections?
 
"We will have fits and starts but we will keep trying" Obama said something very close to this when he took office.

I think we may have to nationalize and I think we can make money by doing it correctly.

It may take some conviencing of the public to get it done.

its not the governments job to 'make' money. it's their job to protect our rights and defend our nation. WE THE PEOPLE are supposed to be the money makers in this economy, but since we allowed the gov to regulate all aspects of the economy, the bubbles are what we get to deal with.
 
Onceler, where are you?

As I've been saying all along, Obama's words rarely match his actions. He speaks boldly, but acts far too meekly.

His stimulus plan was not nearly as bold as the nation needs, and as with healthcare and his plan for the banking industry, he concentrates far too much on the "opposition" and the failed course of "bi-partisanship."

The one man he should have turned to on the economy was Paul Krugman ,, but Krugman would argue for bold action and genuine change .. which is why he's not in the administration.
 
its not the governments job to 'make' money. it's their job to protect our rights and defend our nation. WE THE PEOPLE are supposed to be the money makers in this economy, but since we allowed the gov to regulate all aspects of the economy, the bubbles are what we get to deal with.

Nobody is buying that "too much regulation" crap anymore.

The economy imploded because of lack of regulation, not too much of it.

"We the People" have gotten smarter.
 
BAC. Do you really beleive anyone in government is ever going to reign in wallstreet abuses and currency idiocy? That's where all the payola is generated.
 
BAC. Do you really beleive anyone in government is ever going to reign in wallstreet abuses and currency idiocy? That's where all the payola is generated.

Not too long ago the thought of nationalizing the banks was almost unheard of in America.

We will either solve Wall Street of we continue on our course to implosion.
 
Not too long ago the thought of nationalizing the banks was almost unheard of in America.

We will either solve Wall Street of we continue on our course to implosion.

I wonder if nationalizing the banks though will just put the power of government behind the fuckers already abusing us blind.

If nationalization does NOT wipe out investors, then it's just plain fascism.
 
Nobody is buying that "too much regulation" crap anymore.
then be prepared to hear the economic recovery outlook continue to be pushed til later, and later, and later. It's already gone from the first part of this year to the first part of next year.

The economy imploded because of lack of regulation, not too much of it.
No it did not. It imploded because lack of oversight in the NEEDED areas and not in the areas that didn't matter.

"We the People" have gotten smarter.

we have, but not in the ways you're talking about. The economy isn't recovering right now because the government isn't working in the peoples best interests, but in the financial and government sectors best interests. People will continue to NOT spend money in this economy if their own personal economic outlook is still shaky. That is why every single one of these 'stimulus' programs will fail and prolong a souring economy.
 
Not too long ago the thought of nationalizing the banks was almost unheard of in America.

We will either solve Wall Street of we continue on our course to implosion.

I just wonder if nationalization will just put the power of government behind the shit they already do.

And if they don't wipe out investors, then it's just pure fascism.
 
I wonder if nationalizing the banks though will just put the power of government behind the fuckers already abusing us blind.

If nationalization does NOT wipe out investors, then it's just plain fascism.

Regardless of what we call it, we have already effectively nationalized the largest banks .. some of which we've given more money than they're worth. At least by nationalizing banks Americans get a share for our doillars.

My point was that neccesity is not only the mother of invention, it's also the mother of coersion.

Either we get it right or capitialism is a failure.
 
then be prepared to hear the economic recovery outlook continue to be pushed til later, and later, and later. It's already gone from the first part of this year to the first part of next year.

I don't pay much attention to forecasters because for oine thing Americans can't handle the truth .. which must be doled out to our fragile sensitivities in small portions.

I don't expect recovery anytime this year or the next .. and if GM goes under perhaps not for the next decade..

No it did not. It imploded because lack of oversight in the NEEDED areas and not in the areas that didn't matter.

Oversight is needed throughout the financial industry. There is no such thing as a "free market."

we have, but not in the ways you're talking about. The economy isn't recovering right now because the government isn't working in the peoples best interests, but in the financial and government sectors best interests. People will continue to NOT spend money in this economy if their own personal economic outlook is still shaky. That is why every single one of these 'stimulus' programs will fail and prolong a souring economy.

If the stimulus plans fail it will be ebacsue they're not large enough and we lavck the courage to tackle the enormous challenges we face.

This country teeters on the edge of disaster and total financial collapse and the thought that we've had too much regulation is frankly preposterous my brother.

Can't keep preaching the same failed policies as solutions.
 
Can't keep preaching the same failed policies as solutions.

to figure out WHERE and HOW the government stimulus should go and spend money, you need only ask yourself one single question.

What/Who is the mainstay and the driving force behind any good economy?

1) government spending

2) military industrial

3) banking and financial industry

4 the american consumer

Once you have that answered, the rest of it should easily fall in line to fix it.
 
Regardless of what we call it, we have already effectively nationalized the largest banks .. some of which we've given more money than they're worth. At least by nationalizing banks Americans get a share for our doillars.

My point was that neccesity is not only the mother of invention, it's also the mother of coersion.

Either we get it right or capitialism is a failure.

So then that's a no, the initial investors deserve to keep their original shares as limitless sums of taxpayer money are pumped into their concern. So they are enrichened greatly, at a loss to the taxpayers in general.

We don't need to do this to "keep lending". We don't need these SPECIFIC BANKS to survive. It's clear that all the banker conspiracies are totally true, and it's sad you support it.
 
It's right in front of our eyes people. Yet you are so brainwashed with bad logic and hate that you can't even think, or see, or act.
 
when you nationalize them the gov owns them, then we can sell them at a later date.

We get to choose who buys them , GET IT!
 
when you nationalize them the gov owns them, then we can sell them at a later date.

We get to choose who buys them , GET IT!

and when they remain worth less than what the gov bought them for, who gets stuck with them? or better yet, who loses when the worthless equity is dissolved?
 
when you nationalize them the gov owns them, then we can sell them at a later date.

We get to choose who buys them , GET IT!


So specifically, you believe all current shareholders should forfeit their shares. Can I quote you on that. Is that what you believe. Please be lucid on this singular point. It's very key.
 
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