Fracking in California

cawacko

Well-known member
In general does for/against fracking fall on traditional right/left lines on this board? I don't know how this will play out in California with the Governor supporting it but he'll have quite the battle on his hands to go forward with it.




Fracking exposes rift between Jerry Brown, Democrats



Fracking has opened vast oil and natural gas deposits across the country, creating legions of fans and foes alike. Now the technology has exposed a rift between Gov. Jerry Brown and a very vocal part of his Democratic base.

Brown has come under increasing fire from the state's powerful environmental lobby for his support of hydraulic fracturing, the drilling technique that has revolutionized America's oil and gas industry.

The split erupted into public view when fracking opponents heckled Brown throughout his speech at the recent California Democratic Party convention. While some delegates shouted "Ban fracking!" others held aloft signs proclaiming "Another Democrat Against Fracking." The state party's platform now calls for a fracking moratorium - an idea Brown rejects.

Fracking foes also debuted a fake online commercial for "Frack Water, a fragrance by Jerry Brown." Modeled after a 2004 Stetson cologne ad, it shows a Brown stand-in relaxing in the arms of a woman wearing an oil company's hard hat.

For months, opponents have hounded Brown at public appearances across the state, with some nicknaming the governor Big Oil Brown.

'It's rattling him'

"We know it's rattling him," said David Turnbull, campaigns director for Oil Change International, the environmental group behind the fragrance spoof. "We know he's paying attention and he's hearing it. And we're hopeful that he's going to change. He does care about his legacy - that's pretty clear."

Turnbull's group has also made a point of publicizing the oil industry's financial contributions to Brown's past campaigns. According to Oil Change, fossil fuel companies have given more than $2 million since 2006 to Brown and his pet causes. Those causes include two charter schools he helped create in Oakland, as well as his 2012 statewide ballot initiative to raise funding for education.

A 4th term

The fracking issue threatens to split Democrats just as Brown, who's seeking a fourth term in office, wants to craft a legacy that balances environmental protection with economic growth. Brown has long counted environmentalists as his strongest supporters, and he has made global warming a key priority of his administration.

The governor, however, also sees fracking as a potential source of money and jobs in a state whose economy is still recovering. Fracking, oil companies say, could help unlock the estimated 15.4 billion barrels of petroleum trapped in an immense shale formation under the Central Valley.

Green-minded Democrats, however, view the technique - which uses a high-pressure blend of water, sand and chemicals to crack underground rocks - as an environmental catastrophe in the making.

They argue that fracking chemicals could taint groundwater supplies, although California oil regulators say there's no evidence that has ever happened in the state. In addition, many environmentalists don't want California's massive shale formation, the Monterey Shale, developed at all. Opponents also say that producing more oil will only make climate change worse, the same argument they make against the Keystone XL Pipeline.

Whether opponents can sway Brown is an open question.

Brown has not hesitated to engage fracking protesters in public. Because most of them aren't likely to vote Republican, the governor may decide he can safely ignore their demands, said Thad Kousser, a political-science professor at UC San Diego.

"They need to have somewhere to run, if they want to run away from Jerry Brown," Kousser said. "So Jerry Brown's free to fend off these attacks on the left. And in fact, the more he fends off attacks from the left, the more he looks like a centrist."

The divide

The rift emerged last year when Brown supported a bill from Sen. Fran Pavley, D-Agoura Hills (Los Angeles County), that allowed fracking to continue while the state launched a study of its environmental risks. Pavley authored California's landmark 2006 climate change law, AB32, and many environmentalists consider her a legislative hero. But her fracking bill, SB4, provoked a fierce backlash that quickly focused on Brown.

Fracking opponents want a statewide ban on the practice - or at least a moratorium. (Pavley's bill initially included a moratorium, but she removed it after concluding the bill couldn't pass otherwise.) Until last fall, many hoped Brown would side with them.

Some still think he can be persuaded.

"Gov. Brown is one of the smartest politicians there is," said Kassie Siegel, senior counsel with the Center for Biological Diversity. "Ending fracking is the right thing to do. I think we're at a pivotal moment, and I think he just needs a little more time to get beyond the smoke-and-mirror arguments from the oil industry."

Study time

Brown, however, insists critics should give the state time to study whether fracking poses a threat to water supplies. And although the state is moving to reduce its dependence on oil, Brown says dropping fossil fuels entirely can't happen overnight.

"You can be sure, everything that needs to be done to fight climate change that we can accomplish, we'll do it," Brown told the protesters Saturday.


http://www.sfgate.com/science/article/Fracking-exposes-rift-between-Jerry-Brown-5305168.php
 
I know my libbie credentials have taken a beating, but I've always been pretty left when it comes to the environment, and I'm not against fracking.

In a perfect world, I'd love to just see us getting energy from renewables, but we're not there yet, and shale gas is a lot cleaner overall. Plus, it's domestic, and employs a lot of people.
 
Well though I consider myself a political moderate and have voted for more Republicans than Democrats in my life time I am both an unabashed social liberal and a professional in the environmental field and currently a registered Democrat. So according to this I should fall down on the line that is adamantly opposed to fracking. Right?

In general I'm very much for fracking with some important exceptions.

#1 Fracking needs to be significantly regulated to prevent abuses by the oil and gas industry. Well heads and well casings need to meet stringent design and performance standards to prevent both ground water and surface contamination and need to be periodically inspected by independent entities to ensure public safety.
#2. It's time to evaluate if the Petroleum derived waste excemption has outlived it's usefulness since fracking has expanded dramatically as a mature technology. It's time for Oil & Gas companies meet EPA/RCRA standards for the storage, treatment and disposal of any petroleum derived waste that has any of the four hazardous waste characteristics (ignitabilty, corrosivity, reactivity and toxicity). Abuses in managing petroluem derived waste responsibly plays a substantial role in giving fracking a poor public image.
#3. Fracking should be excluded from areas with significant geological activity or ecological significance. I wouldn't want the gas companies fracking along an active fault line or in Yellow Stone National park.

With these exceptions in mind I'm all for expanding this technology and using our natural gas rescources. It has created an economic boom in several regions. It has already significantly reduced my home heating costs. It has a far lower carbon footprint (i.e. it's a lot cleaner) than either petroleum or coal and it can play a vital foriegn policy and national security role in ending our dependence on foreign energy sourches.

So since I'm currently a Democrat does this put me on the wrong side of the split or is this so called "split" just more political partisan hackery?
 
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Well though I consider myself a political moderate and have voted for more Republicans than Democrats in my life time I am both an unabashed social liberal and a professional in the environmental field.

In general I'm very much for fracking with some important exceptions.

#1 is that it needs to be significantly regulated to prevent abuses by the oil and gas industry. Well heads and well casings need to meet stringent design and performance parameters to prevent both ground water and surface contamination.
#2. It's time to evaluate if the Petroleum derived waste excemption has outlived it's usefulness since fracking has expanded dramatically as a mature technology. It's time for Oil & Gas companies meet EPA/RCRA standards for the storage, treatment and disposal of any petroleum derived waste that has any of the four hazardous waste characteristics (ignitabilty, corrosivity, reactivity and toxicity).
#3. Fracking should be excluded from areas with significant geological activity or ecological significance. I wouldn't want the gas companies fracking along an active fault line or in Yellow Stone National park.

With these exceptions in mind I'm all for expanding this technology and exploiting our natural gas rescources.

So since I'm currently a Democrat does this put me on the wrong side of the split or is this "split" just more political partisan hackery?

You would think that nobody would frack near an active fault like the St. Andreas for their own self preservation if for no other reason. You might also want to add in any area that is subject to water shortages on a regular basis.
 
Turnbull's group has also made a point of publicizing the oil industry's financial contributions to Brown's past campaigns. According to Oil Change, fossil fuel companies have given more than $2 million since 2006 to Brown and his pet causes. Those causes include two charter schools he helped create in Oakland, as well as his 2012 statewide ballot initiative to raise funding for education.

so how much of that went to the two charter schools and a ballot initiative to raise money for funding education and how much went to Brown?

Charter schools and education... oh those evil oil companies
 
You would think that nobody would frack near an active fault like the St. Andreas for their own self preservation if for no other reason. You might also want to add in any area that is subject to water shortages on a regular basis.
One would think so but there has been fracking in areas that are both geologically active and that are ecologically sensitive. There certainly needs to be public discussion about either being permitted and if so what restrictions would apply if not a total prohibition.
 
I am so for cutting ties with ME oil. If they could prove tp me that we're doing that I wouldn't mind paying more for fuel.
 
I know my libbie credentials have taken a beating, but I've always been pretty left when it comes to the environment, and I'm not against fracking.

In a perfect world, I'd love to just see us getting energy from renewables, but we're not there yet, and shale gas is a lot cleaner overall. Plus, it's domestic, and employs a lot of people.

Well, if you weren't such a damn racist, your credentials would be in good order. Killing the environment doesn't look so good, though.
 
I'm still in favor of nuclear energy. But fracking would help us drop useless ties to the ME and Israel so I'm all for it.

Yea, keep nuclear energy. Eat fish...Don't try to make new energy and use government forces to stop new trends.....Small brain..
 
Here is the issue. Water in California is already in short supply. Look at where Fracking started. Oil frackers use to just pump the water back into the earth before it killed lot's of people. But since the documentary "Gasland" exposed the lubricants of fracking (the ingredients of the lubricants were deemed not able to test by a big oil Bush bill that passed. Trying not to be bias, but it's truth)

Today, the Frackers don't seem to be re-introducing the water back into the earth. And here is the result;

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/aug/11/texas-tragedy-ample-oil-no-water <---watch the link small brains.....

In response to this, you can call on god all you want. But god works through PEOPLE.
 
Yeah, that was definitely my bad. WTF did he just attempt to say?

Clearly neither of you know about alternative energy or the Nuclear energy radiation dump that has contaminated the Ocean after Japan........Clearly you kids are only here to troll and not to discuss topics..

This week radiation was found off the Coast of California. Eat more fish idiots.
 
Really wish someone would take me up on my bets here. I could retire by 30.

If you would actually debate people you would realize that you aren't smart at all. You simply ignore them and think you are the victor. I remember last week I put some information in your face and you had a meltdown, "I know I should have kept you banned!"..........The information wasn't mine, it was simply political information....why are you such a weak minded individual?
 
Clearly neither of you know about alternative energy or the Nuclear energy radiation dump that has contaminated the Ocean after Japan........Clearly you kids are only here to troll and not to discuss topics..

This week radiation was found off the Coast of California. Eat more fish idiots.

Fukushima hysteria has already been discussed at length on this forum. Sorry you missed it. As for clean alternatives, perhaps you could link us to some decent research on how much progress we're making on one or more of those instead of simply suggesting that they are out there
 
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