Former fast food CEO says raising the minimum wage will spur robot use

Fale said:
That's probably true. There is always some new corner of the globe to exploit.
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It's called the free market. Free trade. How do you think overpriced goods made by factory workers with government-protected jobs are going to be competitive?
 
Legion Troll said:
How much would products made in America by workers earning your long-lamented "middle-class" wage cost?

There are plenty of products being made domestically, BTW...using automation.
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Almost all factories use automation. They also use people.

Machines need to be operated and maintained. I'm tired of reading this idea that just because a factory uses automation that means they don't hire people. It's silly and untrue.

I have to go - but I'll address your point before I leave. The costs of products would rise. But so would the paychecks of Americans. So that would offset the difference - with the added bonus of more jobs for more Americans. Which we desperately need.

/exits forum
 
In 1953, at the height of the factory economy, manufacturing accounted for more than 28 percent of America's GDP. By 2009, that number had shrunk to 11 percent. Employment in manufacturing peaked in 1979, when nearly 20 million Americans worked in the sector; today, just over 12 million American jobs fall into the "manufacturing" category.

The return of American manufacturing is a nice idea. It recalls an America in which a hard-working kid could go straight from high school to a steady job in his hometown factory, live a solidly middle-class life, and retire somewhat comfortably at 55 or 60.

That America is gone.

With automation making inroads every day, it should be very clear that the work that once fueled industrial America will soon be done by machines (2013 was a record year for sales of robots of the industrial variety).

Machines make fewer mistakes, don't take vacations or lunch breaks, and are terrible at asking for raises. There should be little doubt that we have entered an era of automation from which there is no return. A report from Oxford puts the damage at 45 percent of American jobs in two decades, while a study by Boston Consulting Group estimates a 22 percent decline in manufacturing employment by 2025, all thanks to robots.

The robots are here, or will soon be here. And chances are, your job may well become theirs.

That's why manufacturing is simply not a viable, sweeping, long-term solution for the problem of America's shrinking, struggling middle class, no matter how good it sounds on progressives' political posters. There is no undoing technological innovation.

But that's not necessarily a bad thing.

America doesn't definitely need manufacturing to thrive. GDP tripled during a drastic reduction in the manufacturing workforce from 1970 to 2010, while population increased by roughly a third.

In fact, American GDP increased roughly 20 percent from the end of 2001 to March of 2013, despite a negligible increase in hours worked and jobs created, an increase in productivity brought on largely, if not primarily, by automation in the workplace.


http://theweek.com/articles/563544/american-manufacturing-jobs-are-never-coming-back
 
Fale said:
The costs of products would rise. But so would the paychecks of Americans. So that would offset the difference - with the added bonus of more jobs for more Americans.
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Americans would prefer to buy comparable products at less cost, wouldn't they?
 
Dale said:
I don't see why it can't happen.

In fact, me and my ilk are making some pretty good progress at seeing it happen. So we'll see.
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Who are you and your ilk? Who do you have besides Trump using the rhetoric you want to hear?
 
Legion Troll said:
It was?

In 1900, 20% of Americans were employed in industry. There were twice as many Americans who earned a living in agriculture.

Then came two World Wars.

Massive government spending (finance by staggering government debt) drove what many Trumptards regard as the "golden era" of employment - the military industrial complex.

The wages, job security,pensions, and working conditions your grandfather enjoyed were provided courtesy of labor unions and government regulation - two things Trumptards despise.

America could afford keep wages high and run inefficient productions and distribution after WWII destroyed the competition in virtually every other industrialized nation.

Our manufacturers enjoyed a virtual monopoly because they had the raw materials, factories, workers and transportation to export American goods to a world that has been starved of consumer goods for years.

Then something happened.

Foreigners began rebuilding. They could hire hungry, desperate workers for next to nothing. Their governments needed growth, and the environment and the well-being of the workers wasn't a big consideration.

Our products became uncompetitive. Our own people wanted - and got - low prices everyday. Asia became the world's factory.

Now we can't compete - unless you want to blight out nation with unregulated industries that exploit workers in a lassez-faire free for all that values "jobs" above all else.

Are you willing to work for the wages that Asians are paid to toil in factories where safety is an afterthought and pollution is unchecked?
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exactly why free trade worked then (to our advantage) and doesnt work now.
 
Dale said:
I don't know where you get your information. Must be some corporate/partisan rag or think tank filling your head with corporate myths and misleading information.

Our economy used to be built on making stuff. Agriculture and Manufacturing used to employ one in three workers. Now it's barely one in eight. We have basically been transformed from a manufacturing economy to a service economy - and we are seeing the results of that. Record debt, record poverty, record wealth disparity... yeah we're real efficient let me tell you. Strangely global corporations are still raking in record profits despite all this misery. Hm... I wonder why that is?

Don't be so quick to believe everything you read. Much of the media is controlled by corporate America with a vested interest in keeping people ignorant as to what is really going on.
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Now I remember you.
You were on here a couple of years ago; but under a different moniker and you were promoting the same ideas then.
As a matter of fact, this comment of yours is almost identical to one you've posted here before.
 
cawacko said:
Who are you and your ilk? Who do you have besides Trump using the rhetoric you want to hear?
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If you think it is just me and Trump who are fed up with these trade policies that reward businesses for moving offshore to manufacture then you may want to reexamine that opinion. :)
 
Dale said:
lol

That's the typical corporate talking point. Raise wages and we'll hire robots to do the work instead. It's ridiculous. If they could cook hamburgers with robots they would already be doing it and everyone knows it. Besides, robots need to be built and maintained (by humans). So these greedy corporations can spare us their threats about terminator technology taking over the work force. I've been hearing this same crap for over 30 years.

That being said - raising the Federal Minimum wage to 15$ an hour is not a solution to our unemployment problems, because it will increase unemployment and only make things worst. The debate over minimum wage is largely a misnomer anyway - as States are already free to raise their min. wage if they want.

The only way to fix our unemployment problems is to bring back our manufacturing sector. That is and always was the foundation of our economy and the source of good-paying jobs. It can be again - we have only to implement the right kind of policies to make it happen. Because we are deluding ourselves if we think we are going to be able to survive as an economy of McDonald and Wal Mart workers. We have to start making things over here again.
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Actually the data shows it would increase employment due to the economic spin off. It would mean less part time jobs. The data shows it pretty much to be a wash. There are pros and cons.
 
Dale said:
It's looking that way.

I tried to have a serious debate with him since his OP interested me. But if he's just going to resort to childish insults ignoring him probably is the best option.
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Dale....Lesion is a Troll...says so in his name. That's his game. Trolling people. Don't feed the Troll.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
Now I remember you.
You were on here a couple of years ago; but under a different moniker and you were promoting the same ideas then.
As a matter of fact, this comment of yours is almost identical to one you've posted here before.
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I don't know who you think you remember, but it wasn't me.

Who ever this anonymous poster was he or she must have been effective at making similar arguments if they left such an impression on you that has lasted years. So I really do hope they make a return to this board one day.

To address some of your quotes:

Experience is the best teacher. There is no substitute for experience. Not education. Not theory.
 
Dale said:
If you think it is just me and Trump who are fed up with these trade policies that reward businesses for moving offshore to manufacture then you may want to reexamine that opinion. :)
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The problem with the Trade deals that have undermined our economic system is that the basis of these trade deals was to grow our economy. They have succeeded wildly. Economic growth over this period in the U.S. has been phenomenal. The problem with these Trade deals is that the economic growth is not being widely distributed. The vast majority of it is going highest economic tier of our society. This in turn has created a decline in the standard of living for middle and working class Americans. It is also creating political and social instability and cannot continue. It also brings up the point, what use is a single minded focus on growing the economy when the vast majority of that wealth goes to a handful of people and is not put into wider circulation?

The problem is, the solution to the problem is not turning back the clock or isolationism.

The first step in our problem is that the plague of "supply side" economic policy absolutely has to be extirpated from our Government. It greatly exacerbates the problem.

A step in the right direction is returning to proven economic polices, i.e. Keynesian, that are proven to work and not supply side fantasy fairy dust. As much as the rich would be willing to kill to prevent this we probably need to return to extremely higher, use it or lose it, marginal tax rates for the wealthy. This would force a far larger share of the economic growth we are seeing to be pumped into the broader economy.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Actually the data shows it would increase employment due to the economic spin off. It would mean less part time jobs. The data shows it pretty much to be a wash. There are pros and cons.
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Raising the Federal minimum wage to 15 dollars an hour would not increase employment. Employers would just cut more corners and hire less people as a result.

So I'm not sure where you are getting this data - but I would be highly suspicious of it if I were you.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
The problem with the Trade deals that have undermined our economic system is that the basis of these trade deals was to grow our economy.
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Clinton sold those trade deals on altruistic lines suggesting that they would help poor people around the world. What he neglected to inform the American people was that it would cause rampant unemployment with millions of people having their livelihoods destroyed. It's also no small coincidence that his wife (Hillary Clinton) was sitting on the board of Wal Mart which stood to make billions if such trade policy were enacted (and boy did they).

The protesters in Seattle were right and we should have listened to them.
 
Fale said:
I don't know who you think you remember, but it wasn't me. Who ever this anonymous poster was he or she must have been effective at making similar arguments if they left such an impression on you that has lasted years. So I really do hope they make a return to this board one day. To address some of your quotes: Experience is the best teacher. There is no substitute for experience. Not education. Not theory.
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Uh-huh.

You're not this anonymous poster who must have been effective at making similar arguments that left such an impression on USF that lasted years. I really do think they've made a return to this board already. :)
 
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