For Health Care Reform to Succeed

Insurance company profits aren't really a significant contributing factor to our overall costs. Profits are like 6% of their revenue.

But their overhead is 25-30%. Add that to 6% profit, and that means right around a third of their revenues, your premiums, are being spent on things other than your healthcare costs, like CEO slaries and perks, not to mention $1.4 million a day spent spreading lies to the American people about not-for-profit health care. You are paying to be lied to.

BTW, Medicare runs 2-3% overhead and 0% profit. Do the math.
 
Peer reviewed sources, eh? The same sources which determined global warming was real, before we discovered it wasn't? 'Peer reviewed' means one thing to me when I hear it... that some upper-echelon pinheads looked at it and agreed with lower-echelon pinheads. It has nothing to do with validity or accuracy.

We may rank 30th in mortality, morbidity, life expectancy, whatever... but we have the best quality health care in the world. That was what I said, and all these other things do not refute that fact. Sorry! From a technology and research standpoint, from a state-of-the-art equipment standpoint, from collective education and training of doctors standpoint, we are head and shoulders above any other nation, and have been for decades.

Since when does securing financing for something have a damn thing to do with how much it costs? We are looking at upwards of 10 trillion dollars or more, for nationalized health care. The current debacle Democrats are trying to ram down our throat, is structured so that the bulk of the cost is not realized until 12 years down the road, when all your regime of socialist misfits are long gone from public office. Conveniently, the CBO only figures the cost of a program over the next 10 years (not 12) so this monstrosity appears to not cost as much as it ultimately will.

Now you can throw out all kinds of "facts" and "figures" and claim they have been "peer reviewed" or whatever, this all boils down to simple logic and common sense. There is NO way to guarantee every American health care, and health insurance, without dramatically increasing the cost to every American across the board. There is just not a way to do it. There is no way to add 40 million people to the burden already faced by the health care industry, and expect more availability, that defies logic completely. So there are two of your biggest objectives, shot completely to hell by simple logic. When you start trying to rectify either of these problems, you will dramatically effect quality of health care as well. So much for your idea.
Dixie, get off the fucking soap box. Who the hell said that? What I want to know is if other modern large nations can spend 6 to 8% of their GNP on health care (half our cost) and acheive higher levels of results, why can't we? What can we learn from them? You keep going off on rants with out knowing anything and indeed a contempt for the real world facts we have to deal with. You're insane!
 
Peer reviewed sources, eh? The same sources which determined global warming was real, before we discovered it wasn't? 'Peer reviewed' means one thing to me when I hear it... that some upper-echelon pinheads looked at it and agreed with lower-echelon pinheads. It has nothing to do with validity or accuracy.

We may rank 30th in mortality, morbidity, life expectancy, whatever... but we have the best quality health care in the world. That was what I said, and all these other things do not refute that fact. Sorry! From a technology and research standpoint, from a state-of-the-art equipment standpoint, from collective education and training of doctors standpoint, we are head and shoulders above any other nation, and have been for decades.

Since when does securing financing for something have a damn thing to do with how much it costs? We are looking at upwards of 10 trillion dollars or more, for nationalized health care. The current debacle Democrats are trying to ram down our throat, is structured so that the bulk of the cost is not realized until 12 years down the road, when all your regime of socialist misfits are long gone from public office. Conveniently, the CBO only figures the cost of a program over the next 10 years (not 12) so this monstrosity appears to not cost as much as it ultimately will.

Now you can throw out all kinds of "facts" and "figures" and claim they have been "peer reviewed" or whatever, this all boils down to simple logic and common sense. There is NO way to guarantee every American health care, and health insurance, without dramatically increasing the cost to every American across the board. There is just not a way to do it. There is no way to add 40 million people to the burden already faced by the health care industry, and expect more availability, that defies logic completely. So there are two of your biggest objectives, shot completely to hell by simple logic. When you start trying to rectify either of these problems, you will dramatically effect quality of health care as well. So much for your idea.

Dixie, you might want to tell the dude that France is having soaring health-care costs.
 
Dixie, you might want to tell the dude that France is having soaring health-care costs.
And of all the nations in Europe they have the health care system closest to ours. The one big difference between France and us is that they mandate insurance coverage for all and cannot exclude anyone, not even for pre-existing conditions. Most people are covered by their Employer, the poor are covered by the State. Private insurance companies abound in France and even though they do have a single payer system in France the French health insurance industry is even less regulated then ours. So yea, France does have problems with health care costs rising but even so, they spend 5% less of their GNP then we do and they have THE BEST HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IN THE WORLD!!!

The USA rates 37th in the world and we pay 16% of our GNP on health care, France is rated #1 in the world and only pays 11% of GNP and though they have a lot of the same problems that we do with rising health care costs they still pay considerably less (about 1/3 as a percent of GNP) than we do, this is mainly due to the administrative standardization created by their one payer system and in no way shape or form can France's health care system be considered a socialized one, such as, Britains or Canada's.

In fact, if we should try to learn from any nation it's from a nation such as France, which #1. Has a large population, #2, acheives the BEST health care results in the world, #3 Spends 1/3 less money per capita (as a percent of GNP) that we do, #4. Struggles with cost but does so more affectively than we do while #5 acheiving the best results in the world.

So before you start popping off about France's "soaring-health care costs" you should maybe do some homework and understand that the French are doing something about it while their costs are still 1/3 less then ours while still acheiving the best results in the world. If France can spend 1/3 less then we do and be the best in the world, why can't we?
 
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Dixie, get off the fucking soap box. Who the hell said that? What I want to know is if other modern large nations can spend 6 to 8% of their GNP on health care (half our cost) and acheive higher levels of results, why can't we? What can we learn from them? You keep going off on rants with out knowing anything and indeed a contempt for the real world facts we have to deal with. You're insane!

that's retarded, those studies are not apples to apples
we have way more elective (plastic surgery etc)

the hc bill is a pile of shit and needs to die.
 
that's retarded, those studies are not apples to apples
we have way more elective (plastic surgery etc)

the hc bill is a pile of shit and needs to die.
Who said I was advocating it? Please read my first post again. Besides, it aint elective surgeries that are driving up cost or is a problem. That's a non-issue.
 
the hc bill is yet another massive wealth distribution from Obama and it should die a quick death. Thanks conservative democrats for pointing out that though a douchebag everything opposite of what Bush wanted is not what we now need to do.
 
the hc bill is yet another massive wealth distribution from Obama and it should die a quick death. Thanks conservative democrats for pointing out that though a douchebag everything opposite of what Bush wanted is not what we now need to do.
And his has what to do with the points I was making?
 
Dixie, get off the fucking soap box. Who the hell said that? What I want to know is if other modern large nations can spend 6 to 8% of their GNP on health care (half our cost) and acheive higher levels of results, why can't we? What can we learn from them? You keep going off on rants with out knowing anything and indeed a contempt for the real world facts we have to deal with. You're insane!

Here's the real facts you want to ignore.... we don't need to look at European socialist models for an example, we have a perfectly good example of a socialized system right here in America, it is called the VA. This is the socialist government-run system we put in place decades ago, to provide health care for our HEROES... not the average Joe. You would think it would be a shining example of what a socialized system could do, but ask any veteran if they feel the quality of health care through the VA is comparable to regular public care. Go ahead, see what they say!

You continue to want to look at obscure data from European countries who, for a variety of reasons, have better mortality rates, or manage to provide basic health care for an isolated socialist community of several million, and you think these are pertinent to the debate of nationalized American health care. Most of those examples are struggling financially, and have been forced to introduce capitalist strategies to deal with the burden of cost. But let's not focus on THOSE facts!
 
France is rated #1 in the world ... they still pay considerably less (about 1/3 as a percent of GNP) than we do...#3 Spends 1/3 less money per capita (as a percent of GNP) that we do...

This is from the link YOU provided....

Health expenditure per capita in inter'l $s country rank

USA 1

(France is 4th in per capita expenditure. Get your facts straight, and stop lying to people!)
 
I'm not ignoring facts, I am straight up saying you are lying about the facts and don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I don't know about cost of health care in Germany, France and Japan, but I do know this, they can't have the best quality health care, because we have the best. I also know personally, that Germany has a waiting list for major surgery, because a friend of mine is currently on the list. So you can go blow smoke up someone elses ass, I'm not buying your bullshit.

Let's clarify once more for the slow... NOTHING you have proposed or supported as of yet, addresses the rising cost of medical care in America. Your plan, if anything, will cause the price to dramatically increase while decreasing availability and quality. Simply changing who pays for health care insurance, doesn't control cost of health care! Making something available to everybody, guarantees less availability, it can't do anything else... defies logic.


Sorry, but you are sadly misinformed. As always. You also have no idea what logic is, let alone what defies it. Your entire post is nothing but unsupported allegations, and as a matter of fact, they are demonstrably false allegations. Changing who paya for health care absolutely does control costs, when the change is from a for-profit payer to the government as single payer, because it eliminates profit and drastically reduces overhead. In addition, it brings Big Pharma's price gouging to an end, since the single payer can then demand, not ask, for reasonable drug costs. BigPharma makes obscene profits (pushing 25% fin the case of Eli Lilly). Please don't embarrass yourself by repeating the moronic claim that the drug companie need to make huge profits to pay for R&D. Those who make that claim prove nothing but their ignorance of accounting. The reason net profit is referred to as "the bottom line" is that it is the last line in a P&L statement. There is nothing below it: no additional revenue (which is at the top of the P&L), and no additional costs (which appear as line items between the revenue and profit) R&D is a cost, and has already been accounted for by the time you get to net profit, and BTW, the R&D costs to Big Pharma are only a third as large as their advertising expenditures. Let me repeat that in case it sailed over your head (In case? What am I saying? Of course it sailed over your head, and did so with sufficient altitude to clear the point on your misshapen and under, if ever, utilized cranium. But i digress.)

The amount the drug companies spend on advertising is triple what they spend on R&D. And why is that? Because WE paid for the majority of the R&D with our taxes, which fund the NIH which in turn and in most cases either funded the research done at university medical centers, or did the research itself, then contracted a pharmaceutical company to produce the drug. In fact, of the 14 most efficacious drugs developed in the last 25 years, the NIH either performed or funded the R&D on 11 of them. The most prescribed cancer drug in the world was developed directly by NIH, and the production contracted to Bayer, who immediately jacked the price up 1000%. So we are paying twice for the drug, once with out taxes, where we clearly received value for our tax dollars, and a second time at the drug store, where we received nothing but a thoroughly unpleasant, old-fashioned screwing. Up our backsides. with no lubricant, and certainly without a kiss.

On what do you base your claim that the US has the best health care system? Beside your usual mindless jingoism, that is? We rank #1 only in health care cost per capita, and 37th in overall quality of health care delivered, behind not only the rest of the G20 industrialized nations. but 17 developing nations as well.

Finally, where trhe hell did you get the cretinous notion that making something available to everybody guarantees less availability. Do you know what an oxymoron is? Look in the dictionary. Do you know what a moron is? Look in the mirror.
 
Sorry, but you are sadly misinformed. As always. You also have no idea what logic is, let alone what defies it. Your entire post is nothing but unsupported allegations, and as a matter of fact, they are demonstrably false allegations. Changing who paya for health care absolutely does control costs, when the change is from a for-profit payer to the government as single payer, because it eliminates profit and drastically reduces overhead. In addition, it brings Big Pharma's price gouging to an end, since the single payer can then demand, not ask, for reasonable drug costs. BigPharma makes obscene profits (pushing 25% fin the case of Eli Lilly). Please don't embarrass yourself by repeating the moronic claim that the drug companie need to make huge profits to pay for R&D. Those who make that claim prove nothing but their ignorance of accounting. The reason net profit is referred to as "the bottom line" is that it is the last line in a P&L statement. There is nothing below it: no additional revenue (which is at the top of the P&L), and no additional costs (which appear as line items between the revenue and profit) R&D is a cost, and has already been accounted for by the time you get to net profit, and BTW, the R&D costs to Big Pharma are only a third as large as their advertising expenditures. Let me repeat that in case it sailed over your head (In case? What am I saying? Of course it sailed over your head, and did so with sufficient altitude to clear the point on your misshapen and under, if ever, utilized cranium. But i digress.)

The amount the drug companies spend on advertising is triple what they spend on R&D. And why is that? Because WE paid for the majority of the R&D with our taxes, which fund the NIH which in turn and in most cases either funded the research done at university medical centers, or did the research itself, then contracted a pharmaceutical company to produce the drug. In fact, of the 14 most efficacious drugs developed in the last 25 years, the NIH either performed or funded the R&D on 11 of them. The most prescribed cancer drug in the world was developed directly by NIH, and the production contracted to Bayer, who immediately jacked the price up 1000%. So we are paying twice for the drug, once with out taxes, where we clearly received value for our tax dollars, and a second time at the drug store, where we received nothing but a thoroughly unpleasant, old-fashioned screwing. Up our backsides. with no lubricant, and certainly without a kiss.

On what do you base your claim that the US has the best health care system? Beside your usual mindless jingoism, that is? We rank #1 only in health care cost per capita, and 37th in overall quality of health care delivered, behind not only the rest of the G20 industrialized nations. but 17 developing nations as well.

Finally, where trhe hell did you get the cretinous notion that making something available to everybody guarantees less availability. Do you know what an oxymoron is? Look in the dictionary. Do you know what a moron is? Look in the mirror.

somebody shoot this communist
that is a quote from a turbo-lib democrat (me) who has a clue about businees.
zootard
 
This is from the link YOU provided....

Health expenditure per capita in inter'l $s country rank

USA 1

(France is 4th in per capita expenditure. Get your facts straight, and stop lying to people!)
Dude, you dont' get it. Being #1 on that list isn't a good thing! And if you bothered to do some homework and you knew how to do math (were all aware you have a problem with the concept of 1/3) then you may have noticed that the USA is #1 because the % GNP spent on health care is 16%, the highest in the world (This is not a good thing Dixie) and France is # 4 at 11%, now, if you divide 11 by 16 and multiply that by 100 then subtract the result from 100 you'll see that this is nearly equal to 1/3. So even though France has the 4 th highest expenditure rate on health care per capita they are still spending nearly 1/3 less then we are! However, while France is spending an outrages 11% of GNP for Healthcare they get the best results in the world where as we spend nearly 1/3 more of our GNP on health care and we are rated only 37th in the world!!

So before you accuse others of lying maybe you should try reading something and then try to understand what it is you are reading.
 
It has nothing to do with what I stated. If you don't believe we need health care reform you are in denial.

we need hc reform, what we are getting is redistribution of wealth instead. If you believe different then you don't know shit about the bill or business.
 
statistics lie and liars site statistics.
We have the best hc in the world, we get more procedures and have the highest incomes. What moron would not expect us to spend the most.
Do we have more heart surgeries etc per capita, dental work, boob jobs. YOU BETCHA

Eliminate profit from pharma zoo??? really kiss the new drugs goodby you simpleton
 
somebody shoot this communist
that is a quote from a turbo-lib democrat (me) who has a clue about businees.
zootard
That's an argument from authority Topper. Quote us some facts and references as Zoom did. I've done university level research before and Zoom is right. Half of the R&D on drugs done in this nation is performed at research universities and is paid for with our tax dollars. That's a fact dude. It's also a fact that Big Pharma does pay more in advertising costs then they do in R&D costs. If you can dispute this show us a source with those figures. That would make a hell of a better argument then "Well I have an MBA and I said so."
 
statistics lie and liars site statistics.
We have the best hc in the world, we get more procedures and have the highest incomes. What moron would not expect us to spend the most.
Do we have more heart surgeries etc per capita, dental work, boob jobs. YOU BETCHA

Eliminate profit from pharma zoo??? really kiss the new drugs goodby you simpleton
Topper the saying is "Figures never lie but liars figure". No one is saying that they should take away big pharma's profits. That's a complete strawman. They are saying that we should be able to collectively use an economy of scale to negotiate price for drugs with Big Pharma. Considering that much of pharmaceutical research is done on the public dime, what the hell is wrong with that?
 
zoo said it above,
dems allways run from the wealth shift. People on the Gov plan (dole) will get a much cheaper rate. Consumers like you and I with a corp plan with have to pay the difference.
IE WEALTH TRANSFER
 
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