Filibuster... Kill it or save it?

Bipartisan JPP agreement to nuke the filibuster?

  • Yes lets hold hand and do this.

    Votes: 3 42.9%
  • No, fvck Trump i disagree. Keep it.

    Votes: 3 42.9%
  • I was for nuking it but not now i see Dems would like it.

    Votes: 1 14.3%

  • Total voters
    7
  • Poll closed .
The founders obviously had use for the tactic

They used it


No, Desh, no.

Even later September 22, 1789, incident described in Senator William Maclay's diary does not qualify as a filibuster in the modern or historical sense of the term, despite the U.S. Senate's official historical overview referencing it as an early appearance of the underlying tactic of using extended speeches to delay legislation.

The Senate's description states: "The tactic of using long speeches to delay action on legislation appeared in the very first session of the Senate. On September 22, 1789, Pennsylvania Senator William Maclay wrote in his diary that the 'design of the Virginians . . . was to talk away the time, so that we could not get the bill passed.'"

This was during a debate on a bill to temporarily locate the federal capital in Philadelphia, where Virginia and South Carolina senators prolonged discussion to favor a southern site like Georgetown—yet the bill passed later that day by a 12-7 vote, with no record of the delay extending beyond the session or requiring extraordinary measures to overcome.

Historians and the Senate itself distinguish this from a true filibuster for several reasons: the term "filibuster" did not enter U.S. legislative lexicon until the 1850s (derived from Dutch/Spanish words for "pirate," evoking obstructionist "raiders"); no formal Senate rules explicitly recognized or regulated such tactics until the 1806 elimination of the "previous question" motion (which had allowed debate closure); and the first widely acknowledged filibuster occurred in 1837, when Whig senators obstructed for three weeks to prevent expunging a censure of President Andrew Jackson.

Earlier instances like 1789 are better viewed as proto-filibusters—incipient uses of unlimited debate under rules inherited from the Continental Congress—but not the fully obstructive strategy that later defined the practice.
 
They literally couldn't use it, they made the "previous question" rule that ended debate with a simple majority vote. Basically the fundamental idea of the Filibuster was not made possible until the removal of the "previous question" rule in 1806.
It was the same tactic

The label is meaningless
 
It was the same tactic

The label is meaningless
It was not. Again, they created a rule that would make the Senate exactly as it would be if they did the "nuclear option" today... Simple majority ended debate. That was what the Founders did. You cannot get past the actual reality of this, Desh. You want to believe something so badly you ignore information and facts... I get that it is how you normally act, but as I stated I've always believed you can do better... you just always disappoint.
 
 
That is the general meaning of the word

You are trying to cram it in some very limited definition

Why?
 
It’s the history of filibusters article in the senate

Why did they say it happened on the first day?

And the dictionary describes it the same way the people experiencing in real time did


Because you are trying very very hard to not admit the founders used the dictionary definition of a filibuster on the first meeting of the senate


Do you want to end this practice and why?
 
It’s the history of filibusters article in the senate

Why did they say it happened on the first day?

And the dictionary describes it the same way the people experiencing in real time did


Because you are trying very very hard to not admit the founders used the dictionary definition of a filibuster on the first meeting of the senate


Do you want to end this practice and why?
Again. If today the Senate decided to use the "nuclear option" the same rule that was set forth by the Founders would take place, a simple majority would end debate. Today you would say they "ended the filibuster" and you would be right.

At the time the Founders were in the Senate, they created a rule that ended debate with a simple majority. There was no filibuster. The filibuster came about because a later Senate removed the "previous question" rule which allowed the Senate to end debate with a simple majority, that happened in 1806.
 
Is this the one item we can get a bipartisan majority on, on JPP with people from both sides saying 'Kill It'?
Both sides see the danger of removing the filibuster.

I hate what it does to legislation I want passed, but I love it when it stops legislation I want killed.

My vote is: Leave it in place.
 
I doubt the founders intended that a near super majority be needed to pass regular legislation. It was intended for extraordinary situations such as impeachment.
 
Keep it. Force these bunch of idiots to figure out a way to work together or, hopefully, get voted out of office.
I've got to agree with this. The amount of evil that the MAGATs can do w/o the filibuster speed bump scares me.

The issue is you cannot force them to work together or vote them out as extreme gerrymandering rewards them for not working together and ensures they cannot be forced out.

Extreme gerrymandering and creating safe dogmatic seats means the politicians can never appeal to the centrist and instead of trying to be the face of reason they need to be ever more the face of extremism, or they get primaried with someone worse. And extreme gerrymandering is only getting worse.

This was a Heritage Society and SC Justice John Roberts plan all along. This along with endless dark money in politics, are being done to undermine the current system and make Congress fail in pursuit of the Imperial Presidency John Roberts has been said to be an advocate for long before he got on the SC.

You can clearly see in SC ruling, after SC ruling that they are taking away powers from Congress and giving them to the POTUS. And they, the SC want to remain the only check and balance to the POTUS. In that way the SC actually becomes the most powerful branch.
 
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