FBI Would’ve Been Derelict Not to Use Steele Dossier for the Carter Page FISA Warrant

evince said:
Carter Page was acting as bait for the FBI


the trump idiots bit the bait and swallowed
Click to expand...
I don’t think they found anything, I think he’s mental, he exaggerated his connections, he’s a dupe and too stupid to understand what he was doing.
 
anatta said:
JFC.
we are talking about removing an American's Constitutional rights.

There is a REASON that FISA aps have to be thoroughly vetted and verified.
No you don't need first hand interviews,but you do need full confidence that the info on a COURT FILING is true.

If you bothered to look at the link I gave you on the Emails it says the "intelligence community had doubts about Steele dossier veracity"..
then there is the circular reporting -making it look like multiple sources were used
again to make it appear it as 100% truthful

why do you defend a bunch of fascists..?
Click to expand...

Once again, from the OP:

1) the critical question related to such an application: Was there probable cause to believe that Page was an agent of a foreign power?

2) ....(the) argument, is that the FBI did not properly “verify” the information in the application, which is a technical requirement in a FISA application. McCarthy claims that the FBI was not permitted to rely solely on hearsay information provided by Steele, its source of information, but rather was required to test the credibility of, and reliance on, each sub-source who gave information to Steele. But that is simply not what is required in FISA applications (or criminal wiretap applications), and in particular under the Woods Procedures that govern FISA applications. Under FISA, “verification” simply requires both the FBI and lawyers in the Department of Justice to verify that the facts as set forth in the affidavit are supported by evidence obtained as part of the investigation. That does not mean, however, that the FBI is required, for example, to travel to Russia to interview a sub-source to confirm that the sub-source actually did tell Steele what Steele reported to the FBI. That, of course, almost certainly would not be possible. It is therefore not surprising that McCarthy cites no authority for his assertion that such a step is required.

The reason why hearsay information is permitted in warrant applications is simple: It is hard enough for law enforcement to develop sources who can infiltrate criminal organizations or foreign threats to our national security. If the FBI were required to not only learn of the information from its own sources but also confirm that information with the sub-sources, it would not be able to do its job. Instead, the FBI is legally entitled to rely upon the assertions of a previously credible source, such as Steele, in relaying information from other sub-sources to whom the FBI does not have direct access.

Our nation’s law permits this process because the standard for a warrant such as this one is probable cause, not the higher standard of beyond a reasonable doubt that applies in a criminal trial. McCarthy characterizes the FISA application to include “serious, traitorous allegations against an American citizen and, derivatively, an American presidential campaign.” That is wrong. The FISA application made no such allegations nor did it charge Page with a crime or violation of law. Rather, in order to further investigate credible allegations of wrongdoing, the FISA application simply provided evidence that there was probable cause to believe that Carter Page was an agent of a foreign power and may have, or may be about to, commit violations of criminal law.

Probable cause means a “fair probability.” It is more than a “mere suspicion” but far less than the “reasonable doubt” standard required to convict someone of a crime. While information from a source such as Steele’s more than meets this probable cause standard, that is clearly not all that the warrant relied upon.

You are obviously in over your head on this topic.

Can't see the forrest for the trees.
 
Nomad said:
Once again, from the OP:

1) the critical question related to such an application: Was there probable cause to believe that Page was an agent of a foreign power?

2) ....(the) argument, is that the FBI did not properly “verify” the information in the application, which is a technical requirement in a FISA application. McCarthy claims that the FBI was not permitted to rely solely on hearsay information provided by Steele, its source of information, but rather was required to test the credibility of, and reliance on, each sub-source who gave information to Steele. But that is simply not what is required in FISA applications (or criminal wiretap applications), and in particular under the Woods Procedures that govern FISA applications. Under FISA, “verification” simply requires both the FBI and lawyers in the Department of Justice to verify that the facts as set forth in the affidavit are supported by evidence obtained as part of the investigation. That does not mean, however, that the FBI is required, for example, to travel to Russia to interview a sub-source to confirm that the sub-source actually did tell Steele what Steele reported to the FBI. That, of course, almost certainly would not be possible. It is therefore not surprising that McCarthy cites no authority for his assertion that such a step is required.

The reason why hearsay information is permitted in warrant applications is simple: It is hard enough for law enforcement to develop sources who can infiltrate criminal organizations or foreign threats to our national security. If the FBI were required to not only learn of the information from its own sources but also confirm that information with the sub-sources, it would not be able to do its job. Instead, the FBI is legally entitled to rely upon the assertions of a previously credible source, such as Steele, in relaying information from other sub-sources to whom the FBI does not have direct access.

Our nation’s law permits this process because the standard for a warrant such as this one is probable cause, not the higher standard of beyond a reasonable doubt that applies in a criminal trial. McCarthy characterizes the FISA application to include “serious, traitorous allegations against an American citizen and, derivatively, an American presidential campaign.” That is wrong. The FISA application made no such allegations nor did it charge Page with a crime or violation of law. Rather, in order to further investigate credible allegations of wrongdoing, the FISA application simply provided evidence that there was probable cause to believe that Carter Page was an agent of a foreign power and may have, or may be about to, commit violations of criminal law.

Probable cause means a “fair probability.” It is more than a “mere suspicion” but far less than the “reasonable doubt” standard required to convict someone of a crime. While information from a source such as Steele’s more than meets this probable cause standard, that is clearly not all that the warrant relied upon.

You are obviously in over your head on this topic.

Can't see the forrest for the trees.
Click to expand...

moronic. you rely on 1 older piece. I've showed you they vastly understate Woods.
They do not mention circular reporting as being another source.
And the late breaking about the Emails where they are talking that Steele is dubious
 
archives said:
You are correct, but they are never going to admit it, as long as one talk radio inneundo is still out there they will cling to it to muddle the truth. All you have to do is read the first FICA application to see Page's involvement warranted further investigation

Today is their last chance, Trump's House lackeys "interviewing" Comey to generate as many conspiracies as they can, question being, who's personal memo will we be seeing all over Fox next week?
Click to expand...
where did that info come from? where did you read the first FISA ap? do you mean 2013/2014 ?
Recall that went nowhere -in fact Page became a UC for the FBI
 
archives said:
https://www.lawfareblog.com/document-justice-department-releases-carter-page-fisa-application

Just read the first application and Page's involvement everywhere
Click to expand...
so now guilt by association justifies a FISA? He briefly met with 2 "Russian officals" and he met with Gazprom and Rosneft.
Being he was an energy consultant- why is this "spying" as a "foreign agent"

It's ridiculous -and this is 2016 after he cooperated on the Manhattan spy ring!

EDIT: the rest of that crap is from Steele
 
Nomad said:
What has that got to do with how the FBI obtained the FISA warrant?

I will understand if you can’t answer.

(The answer is "nothing", btw)
Click to expand...

Because in order for the FBI to get a Title 1 FISA Warrant they have to clear a very high bar. Basically they have to show that the individual in question is committing treason. Yes. Treason. Yet, Carter has been charged with NOTHING
 
Doesn't seem like our leftist friends have lots of answers

But, I do like the idea of Trump getting a Title 1 FISA Warrant on his 2020 adversary. Should be fun :)
 
anatta said:
it was all bogus. from the beginning
Click to expand...

Please cite probable cause for the belief that the FBI investigation was bogus. Was the real purpose political spying on the Trump campaign? This theory could be supported if there was any indication that material was passed to political rivals or leaked to hostile media. Is there?

Yet more evidence that senior FBI officials detested Trump would be redundant. Most informed people detested Trump and still do; few if any of them are part of a conspiracy.
 
Tranquillus in Exile said:
Please cite probable cause for the belief that the FBI investigation was bogus. Was the real purpose political spying on the Trump campaign? This theory could be supported if there was any indication that material was passed to political rivals or leaked to hostile media. Is there?

Yet more evidence that senior FBI officials detested Trump would be redundant. Most informed people detested Trump and still do; few if any of them are part of a conspiracy.
Click to expand...
yes it was leaked to media.
there are more then enough text messages for you to see the motivation.

but we are specifically talking about the FISA here lies,innuendos,and op research dressed up as intelligence.
Once you get that part you can get to the "insurance policy" to derail Trump
 
Tranquillus in Exile said:
Please cite probable cause for the belief that the FBI investigation was bogus. Was the real purpose political spying on the Trump campaign? This theory could be supported if there was any indication that material was passed to political rivals or leaked to hostile media. Is there?

Yet more evidence that senior FBI officials detested Trump would be redundant. Most informed people detested Trump and still do; few if any of them are part of a conspiracy.
Click to expand...

The material contained in the Steele Dossier was intended to smear; using the lies it contained as an excuse to spy on Americans is ILLEGAL and UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

But then partisan dumb fucks on the left think it is okay because it is Trump. NO it is NOT okay and you don't smear a Presidency simply because you don't like that you lost.
 
Guille said:
I don't blame the FBI for trying, I blame the court for accepting it.
Click to expand...

You should; what the FBI did is UNCONSTITUTIONAL and CRIMINAL; not to mention Fascistic. As hard as Obama tried, we still aren't a lawless third world shit hole. ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top