Fast and Furious scandal: Obama exerts executive privilege; House panel moves forward

SmarterthanYou said:
who's been convicted of anything? and not to hash through the whole issue again, but two major distinctions were...

1) The weapons being sold under Bush had RFID chips in them and when it got to a point where they couldn't track them anymore, they shut down the op.
2) no federal agents had been killed and the evidence hidden or covered up to show that they were 'walked' weapons.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal
 
Rana said:
If Issa was really after justice, why wouldn't he question the former ATF head and former AG? A lot seems suspect to me.
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good point. I guess it goes to whom is in power now, and surely politics is played by both sides here. I haven't followed this from the beginning;
thinking it was just another FUBAR Fed'l 'good idea'.
from: NYT link see if it clarifys

The Justice Department has turned over about 7,600 documents to Congress in response to the Congressional investigation, covering both Fast and Furious and several previous operations during the Bush administration in which the same A.T.F. division had used similar tactics.

The documents still in dispute are internal e-mails by department officials after Feb. 4, 2011, related to the Congressional investigation into Fast and Furious. That was the date that the department sent a letter to Congress in response to early questions about Fastand Furious claiming that the A.T.F. always made every effort to interdict illegally purchased guns.

As 2011 unfolded, however, the department walked back from that initial denial. Mr. Holder began an inspector general investigation into the matter, and in December the department rescinded the letter and acknowledged that it had been misleading. At the same time, it turned over internal communications leading up to the letter showing that at the time officials at Justice Department headquarters drafted it, Arizona-based law enforcement officials were insisting internally that there had been no gun walking in Fast and Furious
 
Althea said:
What exactly is your issue here?

That a Bush era program ran into problems due to corrupt Mexican lawmakers?

What are you hoping to accomplish?
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my "issue" is the same as anyone that follows politics. The NYT's seems to think it's important.
Executive Privledge isn't rare, nor is it common. Is this a electoral political move? there are many questions/some answers,and well,,,this being a political board...
 
SmarterthanYou said:
who's been convicted of anything? and not to hash through the whole issue again, but two major distinctions were...

1) The weapons being sold under Bush had RFID chips in them and when it got to a point where they couldn't track them anymore, they shut down the op.
2) no federal agents had been killed and the evidence hidden or covered up to show that they were 'walked' weapons.
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http://minx.cc/?post=323260

Seems there was a problem with the chips.

I feel this program, used by both administration was reckless and foolish, and illegal.
 
MORE GENIES! said:
Well, violating international law and over acts of war (givng guns to criminal elements by the thousands in a forgien country without their knowledge, much less permission) would certainly warrant a trial.

But this isn't about Bush. Its about Holder and Obama. Focus on THAT.
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Plus we have Obama admin thumping their chests over giving viruses to Iran. What was covert is now overt because someone wanted to risk war for the sake of appearing strong at home.
 
Rana said:
Ah, it was started under Bush, so if you try Obama and Holder, then you have to try Bush as well.
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But it was also shut down. Obama restarted operation Wide Receiver as operation fast and furious. Under wide receiver, Mexican officials were to keep surveillance of the guns as they crossed and to track them (along with ATF agents in Mexico). It is my understanding that under Fast and Furious, the Mexican authorities were not notified.
 
Superfreak said:
But it was also shut down. Obama restarted operation Wide Receiver as operation fast and furious. Under wide receiver, Mexican officials were to keep surveillance of the guns as they crossed and to track them (along with ATF agents in Mexico). It is my understanding that under Fast and Furious, the Mexican authorities were not notified.
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It is my opinion that both operation are illegal, reckless and obviously ineffective.
 
Superfreak said:
But it was also shut down. Obama restarted operation Wide Receiver as operation fast and furious. Under wide receiver, Mexican officials were to keep surveillance of the guns as they crossed and to track them (along with ATF agents in Mexico). It is my understanding that under Fast and Furious, the Mexican authorities were not notified.
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Correct.
 
Rana said:
It is my opinion that both operation are illegal, reckless and obviously ineffective.
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If both government are running the sting, how would it be illegal? Feds track money/drugs etc... in a similar manner to try and track down those in charge. That said, I would agree that it was reckless to deliberately put weapons of that nature in the hands of violent gangs.
 
Rana said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal
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I prefer to get real facts from one of the two people who actually investigated and broke the story.
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/a-journalist-s-guide-to-project-gunwalker
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/a-journalist-s-guide-to-project-gunwalker-part-two
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/a-journalist-s-guide-to-project-gunwalker-part-three
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/a-journalist-s-guide-to-project-gunwalker-part-four
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/a-journalist-s-guide-to-project-gunwalker-part-five
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/a-journalist-s-guide-to-project-gunwalker-part-six
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/a-journalist-s-guide-to-project-gunwalker-part-seven
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/a-journalist-s-guide-to-project-gunwalker-part-eight
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/a-journalist-s-guide-to-project-gunwalker-part-nine
http://www.examiner.com/article/a-journalist-s-guide-to-project-gunwalker-part-ten
 
MORE GENIES! said:
Already a thread on it Dixie, merged.
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That is a bit presumptuous and rude. My thread is about EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE and this thread was about FAST AND FURIOUS. Two completely different topics, two completely different debates.

And while we're on this.... Explain to me why, Jarod and \\\()/// can post 20 threads on the same topic, flooding the board with their stupidity day and night, and Liberals can interject their own takes on the topics of the day or whatever... but when a CONSERVATIVE does it, you merge threads? Why can't WE have 50-gazillion threads on Fast and Furious?

This place is becoming a fucking JOKE again!
 
Dixie said:
Does anyone recall what Liberals had to say about Bush
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I wasn't here for that, but I do know that every president since Reagan has claimed Executive Privilege. Bush more than them.

What I do want to know is when will Bush and the disgraced Alberto Gonzales be subpoened over this? After all, F&F started under his regime in 2006.

Attkisson noted that all this happened under the Bush administration - three years before the start of "Fast and Furious," the better-known ATF operation under the Obama administration that has come under scrutiny . "Fast and Furious" allegedly let thousands of weapons fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels, and is now the subject of two investigations.

The "Fast and Furious" tactic of letting guns "walk" was exposed after Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was murdered last December and at least two assault rifles from "Fast and Furious" were found at the scene.

As for its predecessor, "Wide Receiver,": prosecutors finally, quietly, rounded up seven suspects last fall. No cartel leaders, just buyers who - critics say - should never have been allowed to put even one weapon on the street, let alone operate for years.

Detty said, "My first day as an informant, if they had said, 'Here's our plan, Mike: We're going to let as many guns go across the border as they can haul, and we're just gonna look and see where they pop up,' I'd have said, 'No way. That's not a plan. That's idiocy.' "

Attkisson said efforts to reach former Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez, who was in office when "Wide Receiver" started under the Bush administration, were unsuccessful. Meanwhile, his successor is under fire. Republicans are calling for a special prosecutor to investigate whether Attorney General Eric Holder told the truth when he testified earlier this year to Congress about when he first knew about 'Fast and Furious.'
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Rana said:
Ahahahahah, good old Nixon.

The issues needs to be thoroughly investigated, but the former AG and ATF need to be questioned as well as Holder. I am no fan of Holder, but Issa's refusal to investigate all makes this whole ordeal suspect and gives the appearance of a witch hunt. asking for documents that aren't related? Why?
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It's what they do. Just like during the Clinton years, the investigation was supposed to be about Whitewater and that vile Ken Starr threw in everything but the kitchen sink.
 
Howey said:
We are? What has Holder already done? Here's the letter:



Seems like Holder's done everything but plop his first born in front of the committee.

Executive Privilege is old and has been used by every president since Reagan for the exact same reason as it's being used now.



This is merely much ado about nothing for the thousandth time since that black man was elected. Let's try to get over it and...I don't know...pass some bills???
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LOL...

Let's see, the committee asks for documents 11 to 100, Holder gives them documents 1 to 7 and a summary of documents 1 to 7 with a letter that he later retracts. Already proven to be lying (letter he retracted claiming it's all somebody else) he now expects the same people he lied to for 10 months before retracting his lie that document 1 to 7 are all they need...

Holder has done everything to distract, distort, avoid, and generally show contempt for the oversight powers of Congress.

The "most transparent administration in history" once again tries to shut down any public knowledge while their sheeple tell us this doesn't matter.

200 people are dead in just the crime scenes we KNOW about, at least 1 of our own agents killed by a thug carrying a weapon somebody in the ATF let them take under orders from somebody up above them... a friendly neighbor nation is quite literally nearly at war with the people we let have these weapons, they aren't amused and their citizens are dying...

This is a big deal. This is not something that needs to be covered like cats in a cat box. This isn't even close to the Wide Receiver project which was in concert with Mexico, not in contempt of Mexico and which was shut down before this AG got into that office. Quite a bit before. This is larger, far more serious, and appears to be done for political purpose. This isn't something we need to "try to get over", this is absolutely something we need to get to the bottom of and uncover the roaches.
 
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