Fast and Furious scandal: Obama exerts executive privilege; House panel moves forward

anatta

100% recycled karma
http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ontempt-vote/2012/06/20/gJQAGImIqV_story.html
President Obama asserted executive privilege over documents related to the “Fast and Furious” operation Wednesday as a House panel moved to hold Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. in contempt after he failed to hand over documents related to a congressional inquiry into the scandal.

In a letter sent to Obama late Tuesday, Holder urged Obama to exert executive privilege, because sharing internal documents with lawmakers could "have significant, damaging consequences.”

.Sharing the documents “would inhibit candor of such Executive Branch deliberations in the future and significantly impair the Executive Branch’s ability to respond independently and effectively to congressional oversight,” Holder wrote to Obama. :hide:
 
Welcome back President Nixon!! Got a couple nice wars for you, here's your "stonewall", now where did we put your enemies list?
 
unfucking real.
would inhibit candor of such Executive Branch deliberations in the future and significantly impair the Executive Branch’s ability to respond independently and effectively to congressional oversight
Ya. producing the documents would inhibit the Executive's branch to obfuscate Congressional oversight. Can't disturb the Unitary president, while he's running for re-election.
 
Welcome back President Nixon!! Got a couple nice wars for you, here's your "stonewall", now where did we put your enemies list?

Ahahahahah, good old Nixon.

The issues needs to be thoroughly investigated, but the former AG and ATF need to be questioned as well as Holder. I am no fan of Holder, but Issa's refusal to investigate all makes this whole ordeal suspect and gives the appearance of a witch hunt. asking for documents that aren't related? Why?
 
Ahahahahah, good old Nixon.

The issues needs to be thoroughly investigated, but the former AG and ATF need to be questioned as well as Holder. I am no fan of Holder, but Issa's refusal to investigate all makes this whole ordeal suspect and gives the appearance of a witch hunt. asking for documents that aren't related? Why?
Well. those witnesses can be called, but there are about 18,000 documnets sought ( I think Emails, under Holder), and he's offered to "brief" - but not produce documents.

Now. instead of allowing Congressional oversight, we're getting stonewalled. The document are under subpoena. Release them, and get a clearer picture, and see where to go from there.
But no. Stonewallaing. I'm wondering if this is political, to FORCE the House to cite Holder for contempt? Another distraction.
Or maybe there is something there. either way it stinks, fortifies the Unitary POTUS.
The documnets are available -start there, and investigate further, as leads are developed.
 
Now. instead of allowing Congressional oversight, we're getting stonewalled.

We are? What has Holder already done? Here's the letter:

The Honorable Darrell E. Issa
Chairman
June 20, 2012
Committee on Oversight and Government Reform
U.S. House of Representatives
Washington, DC 20515

Dear Mr. Chairman:

After you rejected the Department's recent offers of additional accommodations, you stated that the Committee intends to proceed with its scheduled meeting to consider a resolution citing the Attorney General for contempt for failing to comply with the Committee's subpoena of October 11, 2011. I write now to inform you that the President has asserted executive privilege over the relevant post-February 4, 2011, documents.

We regret that we have arrived at this point, after the many steps we have taken to address the Committee's concerns and to accommodate the Committee's legitimate oversight interests regarding Operation Fast and Furious. Although we are deeply disappointed that the Committee appears intent on proceeding with a contempt vote, the Department remains willing to work with the Committee to reach a mutually satisfactory resolution of the outstanding issues.

Over the last fourteen months, the Department has provided a significant amount of information to the Committee in an extraordinary effort to accommodate the Committee's legitimate oversight interests. The Department has provided the Committee with over 7,600 pages of documents and has made numerous high-level officials available for public congressional testimony, transcribed interviews, and briefings. Attorney General Holder has answered congressional questions about Fast and Furious during nine public hearings, including two before the Committee. The Department has devoted substantial resources to responding to these congressional inquiries.

In addition, upon learning of questions about the tactics used in Fast and Furious, the Attorney General promptly asked the Department's Acting Inspector General to open an investigation into the operation. This investigation continues today. We expect that the Inspector General's report will further help the Department to understand how these mistakes occurred and to ensure that they do not occur again.

Finally, the Department has instituted a number of significant reforms to ensure that the mistakes made in Fast and Furious are not repeated. For example, a directive was issued to the field prohibiting the flawed tactics used in that operation from being used in future law enforcement operations. Leadership and staffing at ATF and the Arizona U.S. Attorney's Office were reorganized, and A TF instituted new policies to ensure closer supervision by ATF management of significant gun trafficking cases. The Criminal Division refined its process for reviewing wiretap authorization requests by its Office of Enforcement Operations. And component heads were directed to take additional care to provide accurate information in response to congressional requests, including by soliciting information directly from employees with detailed personal knowledge of the subject matter at issue.

The Committee's original report accompanying its contempt resolution identified three "main categories" of interest: (1) "Who at Justice Department Headquarters Should Have Known of the Reckless Tactics"; (2) "How the Department Concluded that Fast and Furious was 'Fundamentally Flawed"'; and (3) "How the Inter-Agency Task Force Failed." Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, U.S. House ofRepresentatives, Report at 39-40 (June 15, 20 12). With respect to the first category, the thousands of pages of documents and other information we have provided establish that the inappropriate tactics used in Fast and Furious were initiated and carried out by personnel in the field over several years and were not initiated or authorized by Department leadership. We have also provided the Committee with significant information with respect to the third category. In a revised report issued late last week, the Committee has made clear that these categories will not be the subject of the contempt vote. See Report at 41.

Rather, the Committee has said that the contempt vote will address only the second category, "How the Department Concluded that Fast and Furious was 'Fundamentally Flawed." See Report at 42; Letter for Eric H. Holder, Jr., Attorney General, from Darrell E. Issa, Chairman at 1-2 (June 13, 2012) ("Chairman's Letter"). In this regard, your letter of June 13 stated that the Committee is now "focused on" "documents from after February 4, 2011, related to the Department's response to Congress and whistleblower allegations" concerning Operation Fast and Furious, in order to "examine the Department's mismanagement of its response to Operation Fast and Furious." !d. The Committee has explained that it needs these post-February 4 documents, including "those relating to actions the Department took to silence or retaliate against Fast and Furious whistleblowers," so that it can determine "what the Department knew about Fast and Furious, including when and how it discovered its February 4 letter was false, and the
Department's efforts to conceal that information from Congress and the public." Report at 33.

The Department has gone to great lengths to accommodate the Committee's legitimate interest in the Department's management of its response to congressional inquiries into Fast and Furious. The information provided to the Committee shows clearly that the Department leadership did not intend to mislead Congress in the February 4 letter or in any other statements concerning Fast and Furious. The Department has already shared with the Committee all internal documents concerning the drafting of the February 4letter, and numerous Department officials and employees, including the Attorney General, have provided testimony, transcribed
interviews, briefings, and other statements concerning the drafting and subsequent withdrawal of that letter.

This substantial record shows that Department officials involved in drafting the February 4 letter turned to senior officials of components with supervisory responsibility for Operation Fast and Furious- the leadership of ATF and the U.S. Attorney's Office in Arizona- and were told in clear and definitive terms that the allegations in Ranking Member Grassley's letters were false. After the February 4 letter was sent, such assurances continued but were at odds with information being provided by Congress and the media, and the Attorney General therefore referred the matter to the Acting Inspector General for review.

As the Department's review proceeded over the next several months, Department leaders publicly indicated that the facts surrounding Fast and Furious were uncertain and that the Department had significant doubts about the assertions in the February 4 letter. For example, at a House Judiciary Committee hearing on May 3, 2011, the Attorney General testified that the Department's Acting Inspector General was reviewing "whether or not Fast and Furious was conducted in a way that's consistent with" Department policy, stating "that's one of the questions that we'll have to see." The next day, May 4, 2011, in response to a question from Senator Grassley at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing about allegations that ATF had not interdicted weapons, the Attorney General said, "I frankly don't know. That's what the [Inspector General's] investigation ... will tell us." As you have acknowledged, Department staff reiterated these doubts during a briefing for Committee staff on May 5, 2011. Testifying before the Committee in June 2011, Ronald Weich, Assistant Attorney General for Legislative Affairs, acknowledged that "obviously allegations from the A TF agents ... have given rise to serious questions about how ATF conducted this operation." He added that "we're not clinging to the statements" in the February 4 letter.

In October 2011, the Attorney General told the Committee that Fast and Furious was "fundamentally flawed." This statement reflected the conclusion that Department leaders had reached based on the significant effort over the prior months to understand the facts of Fast and Furious and the other Arizona-based law enforcement operations. The Attorney General reiterated this conclusion while testifying before Congress in November 2011. The Department's many public statements culminated in the formal withdrawal of the February 4 letter on December 2, 2011.

The Department has substantially complied with the outstanding subpoena. The documents responsive to the remaining subpoena items pertain to sensitive law enforcement activities, including ongoing criminal investigations and prosecutions, or were generated by Department officials in the course of responding to congressional investigations or media inquiries about this matter that are generally not appropriate for disclosure.

In addition to these productions, we made extraordinary accommodations with respect to the drafting and subsequent withdrawal of the February 4 letter, producing to the Committee 1,364 pages of deliberative documents. And we accepted your June 13 letter's invitation to "mak[ e] a serious offer" of further accommodation in hopes of reaching "an agreement that renders the process of contempt unnecessary." Chairman's Letter at 2. Specifically, we offered to provide the Committee with a briefing, based on documents that the Committee could retain, explaining further how the Department's understanding of the facts of Fast and Furious evolved during the post-February 4 period, as well as the process that led to the withdrawal of the February 4 letter. See Letter for Darrell E. Issa, Chairman, from Eric H. Holder, Jr., Attorney General at 1 (June 14, 2012). We also offered to provide you with an understanding of the documents that we could not produce and to address any remaining questions that you had after you received the briefing and the documents on which it was based. We believe that this additional accommodation would have fully satisfied the Committee's requests for information. We are therefore disappointed that the Committee has not accepted our offer and has chosen instead to proceed with the scheduled contempt vote.

As I noted at the outset, the President, in light of the Committee's decision to hold the contempt vote, has asserted executive privilege over the relevant post-February 4 documents.

The legal basis for the President's assertion of executive privilege is set forth in the enclosed letter to the President from the Attorney General. In brief, the compelled production to Congress of these internal Executive Branch documents generated in the course of the deliberative process concerning the Department's response to congressional oversight and related media inquiries
would have significant, damaging consequences. As I explained at our meeting yesterday, it would inhibit the candor of such Executive Branch deliberations in the future and significantly impair the Executive Branch's ability to respond independently and effectively to congressional oversight. Such compelled disclosure would be inconsistent with the separation of powers established in the Constitution and would potentially create an imbalance in the relationship between these two.co-equal branches of the Government.

In closing, while we are deeply disappointed that the Committee intends to move forward with consideration of a contempt citation, I stress that the Department remains willing to work toward a mutually satisfactory resolution of this matter. Please do not hesitate to contact this office if we can be assistance.

Enclosure
cc: The Honorable Elijah E. Cummings
Ranking Minority Member

Sincerely,

James M. Cole
Deputy Attorney General

Seems like Holder's done everything but plop his first born in front of the committee.

Executive Privilege is old and has been used by every president since Reagan for the exact same reason as it's being used now.

Also, the White House points out to reporters that President George W. Bush asserted executive privilege six times, while Bill Clinton did so in 14 instances, "both of whom protected the same category of documents we're protecting today (ie after-the-fact internal Executive Branch materials responding to congressional and media inquiries - in this case from the Justice Department). In fact, dating back to President Reagan, Presidents have asserted executive privileged 24 times. President Obama has gone longer without asserting the privilege in a Congressional dispute than any President in the last three decades."

This is merely much ado about nothing for the thousandth time since that black man was elected. Let's try to get over it and...I don't know...pass some bills???
 
We are? What has Holder already done? Here's the letter:



Seems like Holder's done everything but plop his first born in front of the committee.

Executive Privilege is old and has been used by every president since Reagan for the exact same reason as it's being used now.



This is merely much ado about nothing for the thousandth time since that black man was elected. Let's try to get over it and...I don't know...pass some bills???
The bolded font shows me you're playing the race card. I voted for Obama. Try again. The letter shows what Holder WANTS to show, here's a redact.
The Department has provided the Committee with over 7,600 pages of documents and has made numerous high-level officials available for public congressional testimony, transcribed interviews, and briefings. Attorney General Holder has answered congressional questions about Fast and Furious during nine public hearings, including two before the Committee
Have you followed Holder's testimony? -it was mostly "i dunno" I didn't see that" etc. Lot's of verbiage , virtually no candor. Then he appoints a prosecutor from INSIDE DoJ.

It's like asking the fox to guard the henhouse - if something is wrong ( and i'm not claiming either way) how can you expect an AG ( notoriosly politicized, by virtually all POTUS's) to self investigate itself? You can't. Holder is stonewalling, why the invocation?

I imagine we;ll hear "we don't want to release border security transcripts" Duh. what? How is investiagting gun running by DoJ (which i agreee preceedes this Adm.) tied to border security?

If you read the letter there was a bunch of "negotiations" with the Commmittee. The goalposts kept moving, ONLY when a Congress threatens contempt does Obama invoke Executive privledge -NOT BEFORE -why?

Finally:
In brief, the compelled production to Congress of these internal Executive Branch documents generated in the course of the deliberative process concerning the Department's response to congressional oversight and related media inquiries
would have significant, damaging consequences. As I explained at our meeting yesterday, it would inhibit the candor of such Executive Branch deliberations in the future and significantly impair the Executive Branch's ability to respond independently and effectively to congressional oversight
. is complete horseshit Nixonian language: nothing new from the Executive,though a 180 degree deviation from the "transparency" we were promised.
 
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The documents still in dispute are internal e-mails by department officials after Feb. 4, 2011, related to the Congressional investigation into Fast and Furious. That was the date that the department sent a letter to Congress in response to early questions about Fastand Furious claiming that the A.T.F. always made every effort to interdict illegally purchased guns.

As 2011 unfolded, however, the department walked back from that initial denial. Mr. Holder began an inspector general investigation into the matter, and in December the department rescinded the letter and acknowledged that it had been misleading. At the same time, it turned over internal communications leading up to the letter showing that at the time officials at Justice Department headquarters drafted it, Arizona-based law enforcement officials were insisting internally that there had been no gun walking in Fast and Furious.

Republicans now want to see what Justice Department officials said to each other after the letter as the Congressional investigation unfolded and as it became clear that its initial denial was wrong, and whether they retaliated against A.T.F. agents who informed Congress about the problems with the case.

But Mr. Cole, in his letter, said the department had already “substantially complied” with the subpoena.

“The documents responsive to the remaining subpoena items pertain to sensitive law enforcement activities, including ongoing criminal investigations and prosecutions, or were generated by department officials in the course of responding to Congressional investigations or media inquiries about this matter that are generally not appropriate for disclosure,” he said
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/21/u...ive-privilege-in-gun-case.html?pagewanted=all
 
Deputy Attorney General James Cole said in a letter to Mr. Issa that the president was claiming privilege over the documents, although he suggested that there might yet be a way to negotiate the release of some of the contested documents.

“We regret that we have arrived at this point, after the many steps we have taken to address the committee’s concerns and to accommodate the committee’s legitimate oversight interests regarding Operation Fast and Furious,” the Justice Department letter said. “Although we are deeply disappointed that the committee appears intent on proceeding with a contempt vote, the department remains willing to work with the committee to reach a mutually satisfactory resolution of the outstanding issues.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/21/u...ive-privilege-in-gun-case.html?pagewanted=all
 
so is this just posturing? a genuine desire to "work it out? a move to delay the(contempt) vote? Political move? anybody got any ideas???
 
so is this just posturing? a genuine desire to "work it out? a move to delay the(contempt) vote? Political move? anybody got any ideas???

If Issa was really after justice, why wouldn't he question the former ATF head and former AG? A lot seems suspect to me.
 
so is this just posturing? a genuine desire to "work it out? a move to delay the(contempt) vote? Political move? anybody got any ideas???
What exactly is your issue here?

That a Bush era program ran into problems due to corrupt Mexican lawmakers?

What are you hoping to accomplish?
 
Obama should stand trial both here and abroad, and Holder should've resigned a year ago and be awaiting trial here an abroad.

Billy, that is just dumb. I agree with Holder resigning, but trial aboard, you wont even let Bush and Co. Be tried for their war crimes.
 
Billy, that is just dumb. I agree with Holder resigning, but trial aboard, you wont even let Bush and Co. Be tried for their war crimes.

Well, violating international law and over acts of war (givng guns to criminal elements by the thousands in a forgien country without their knowledge, much less permission) would certainly warrant a trial.

But this isn't about Bush. Its about Holder and Obama. Focus on THAT.
 
What exactly is your issue here?

That a Bush era program ran into problems due to corrupt Mexican lawmakers?

What are you hoping to accomplish?

nice try and throwing it back to Bush. There are significant differences between the two operations that have been discussed many times. Not that I don't think that one should also be investigated as well, if for anything, at least to ensure it's lawfulness.
 
Well, violating international law and over acts of war (givng guns to criminal elements by the thousands in a forgien country without their knowledge, much less permission) would certainly warrant a trial.

But this isn't about Bush. Its about Holder and Obama. Focus on THAT.

Ah, it was started under Bush, so if you try Obama and Holder, then you have to try Bush as well.
 
nice try and throwing it back to Bush. There are significant differences between the two operations that have been discussed many times. Not that I don't think that one should also be investigated as well, if for anything, at least to ensure it's lawfulness.

Yeah, with the Bush administration there were no convictions.
 
Yeah, with the Bush administration there were no convictions.

who's been convicted of anything? and not to hash through the whole issue again, but two major distinctions were...

1) The weapons being sold under Bush had RFID chips in them and when it got to a point where they couldn't track them anymore, they shut down the op.
2) no federal agents had been killed and the evidence hidden or covered up to show that they were 'walked' weapons.
 
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