Fascinating Poll: Likely Voters Don't Know Squat

Bonestorm

Thrillhouse
Not really sure what to say about this, but it's interesting:

The Obama administration cut taxes for middle-class Americans, expects to make a profit on the hundreds of billions of dollars spent to rescue Wall Street banks and has overseen an economy that has grown for the past four quarters.

Most voters don’t believe it.

A Bloomberg National Poll conducted Oct. 24-26 finds that by a two-to-one margin, likely voters in the Nov. 2 midterm elections think taxes have gone up, the economy has shrunk, and the billions lent to banks as part of the Troubled Asset Relief Program won’t be recovered.

“The public view of the economy is at odds with the facts, and the blame has to go to the Democrats,” said J. Ann Selzer, president of Selzer & Co., a Des Moines, Iowa-based firm that conducted the nationwide survey. “It does not matter much if you make change, if you do not communicate change.”

The Obama administration has cut taxes -- largely for the middle class -- by $240 billion since taking office Jan. 20, 2009. A program aimed at families earning less than $150,000 that was contained in the stimulus package lowered the burden for 95 percent of working Americans by $116 billion, or about $400 per year for individuals and $800 for married couples. Other measures include breaks for college education, moderate- income families and the unemployed and incentives to promote renewable energy.

Still, the poll shows the message hasn’t gotten through to Americans, especially middle-income voters. By 52 percent to 19 percent, likely voters say federal income taxes have gone up for the middle class in the past two years.

‘All About Raising Taxes’

“He’s all about raising taxes,” says poll respondent Jeanette Bagley, 74, a retired home health aide in a suburb of St. Paul, Minnesota. “He’s all about big government and big spending.”

The view that taxes have gone up is shared by a majority of almost all demographic groups, including 50 percent of independent voters, among the linchpins of Obama’s victory in the 2008 election.

Even a plurality of Democrats, 43 percent, holds this misperception. Overall, 63 percent of those who earn $25,000 to $49,999 say taxes have gone up, compared with 45 percent of those who earn $100,000 or more.

Republican Advantage

The poll demonstrates the tough odds for Democrats heading into the midterms. Republicans are poised to retake the U.S. House next week with a 47 percent to 44 percent edge among likely voters. Independents are driving the Republican advantage.

The heart of Obama’s voting base and the group he’s tailored most of his policies to, middle-income earners -- or those who make $25,000 to $49,999 -- feel more pinched by taxes, are gloomier about economic growth and more pessimistic the tax dollars lent to Wall Street banks will ever be repaid than their higher-income-earning counterparts.

In an October report to Congress, released as TARP turned two years old, the Treasury said it had recovered most of the $245 billion spent on the Wall Street bank part of the rescue, and expects to turn a $16 billion profit. In the Bloomberg poll, 60 percent of respondents say they believe most of the TARP money to the banks is lost and only 33 percent say most of the funds will be recovered.

“Anything that ever needs to be paid back it’s ‘let’s go after the middle class,’” says poll respondent Judith Ann Micone, a 55-year-old cosmetologist and Republican from Kalispell, Montana.

Women More Skeptical

Women are slightly more skeptical than men that the funds will be recovered. Independents and Republicans are overwhelmingly skeptical. Even Democrats are mostly doubtful, with 48 percent saying the money will be lost, compared with 41 percent who say it will be recovered.

Separate from the aid for the Wall Street banks, the Treasury says the payouts for insurers such as New York-based American International Group Inc. will end with a small loss on investment, as will the bailout for automakers. Only the assistance to mortgage lenders, projected to reach about $45 billion, will never be repaid, Treasury says.

The perceptions of voters about the performance of the economy are also at odds with official data. The recession that began in December 2007 officially ended in June 2009, making the 18-month stretch the longest since the Great Depression. In the past year, the economy has grown 3 percent and is expected to show improvement in the second quarter of this year.

Shrinking Economy

Voters aren’t seeing the better climate: 61 percent of poll respondents say the economy is shrinking this year, compared with 33 percent who say it is growing.

Charlene Miller, a 58-year-old unemployed nursery worker from Waterview, Maryland, said her impression is shaped by the state of jobs and wages and the fact that she’s been unemployed for two years.

“We’re sending too many jobs overseas and not paying Americans for their work,” says Miller, an independent who voted for Obama.

Older voters are more likely to view the economy negatively, with 69 percent of those age 55 and older saying it is shrinking, compared with 48 percent of voters under 35 who say so. For those 65 and older, it’s 71 percent. Those who earn less than $50,000 are more likely to view the economy negatively than those who earn more.

The Bloomberg National Poll, which included interviews with 1,000 likely voters in the November 2010 general election, has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.1 percentage points.

Stock Market

The impressions of these voters also are dissonant with other signs of economic improvement.

A year and a half after U.S. stocks hit their post- financial-crisis low on March 9, 2009, the benchmark Standard & Poor’s 500 Index has risen 75 percent, and it’s up 15 percent for this year.

The unemployment rate that’s hovered at or above 9.5 percent for 14 months is crowding out any positive news, said Bruce Oppenheimer, a political science professor at Vanderbilt University in Nashville.

“It spreads a dark cloud across anything else that you’re doing,” Oppenheimer said. “This won’t be a good election for Democrats.”

The poll reveals the failure of the Democrats to communicate their achievements even within their own party and the opposition’s triumph in painting the Obama administration as a failure, particularly on economic issues.

“The administration has said for a long time that the best politics was doing the right thing,” says Steve McMahon, a Democratic strategist. “It requires a lot more. These numbers show that the best politics is selling what you’re doing.”


I guess all these folks getting their economic information from CNBC must have it on mute.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...on-t-know-economy-expanded-with-tax-cuts.html
 
Lately all I hear on CNBC is, "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!" This in reference to their political favorites not to the economy.
 
Perception is reality:

You're right, thats the very reason Obama is President and Democrats are in control of the entire government....
Obamas tax cut was akin to a joke....what the voters see is that the federal tax rates (tables) are the same as they were in 2003...nothings changed.....they know there was NO TAX CUTS IN THE RATES.....

Voters know that they have less foolish money to enjoy. Bottom line.

The economy has grown in the last 4 quarters...yes it has...but where are the jobs? Unemployment is a record highs....it would be better if it people had jobs and economy shrunk.

Perception is reality...look how many pinheads still insist the lies perpetuated by the Dems about Bush, his wife, and his children still persist...I won't even begin with that list of lies.
 
It's really not a mystery.

Who has dominated the national dialogue over the past 2 years? The TEA party. Tune into any cable news show or panel, newspaper, magazine, whatever.

And sorry, kids, but most of the stuff that comes out of the TEA folks - at least the loud ones - is falsified propoganda. You would think Obama implemented the biggest tax increase in history...
 
Perception is reality:

You're right, thats the very reason Obama is President and Democrats are in control of the entire government....
Obamas tax cut was akin to a joke....what the voters see is that the federal tax rates (tables) are the same as they were in 2003...nothings changed.....they know there was NO TAX CUTS IN THE RATES.....

Voters know that they have less foolish money to enjoy. Bottom line.

The economy has grown in the last 4 quarters...yes it has...but where are the jobs? Unemployment is a record highs....it would be better if it people had jobs and economy shrunk.

Perception is reality...look how many pinheads still insist the lies perpetuated by the Dems about Bush, his wife, and his children still persist...I won't even begin with that list of lies.

So you didn't get this?

"Bundled in the 2009 economic stimulus plan is the $400 ($800 for couples) Making Work Pay tax credit that will provide a tax credit in 2009 and 2010 equal to 6.2 percent of your earned income up to a maximum of $400 for individual filers and $800 for couples.

The $400/$800 Making Work Pay tax credit took effect in July 2009. Workers who have taxes withheld from their paychecks will see a decrease in the federal income taxes withheld from each paycheck by about $30 per paycheck every two weeks or $60 for couples."

Please, feel free to list some of the lies Dems perpetrated against bush and his family. I'm in the mood to do some refudiating. :pke:
 
telling the people that disapprove of your policies that they are just plain stupid and can't fathom the logic of their path is going to get you real far.
 
Not really sure what to say about this, but it's interesting:




I guess all these folks getting their economic information from CNBC must have it on mute.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...on-t-know-economy-expanded-with-tax-cuts.html

LMAO.... yeah... because the $400-800 is NOT a tax cut... it was a gimmic. One that didn't work. People didn't feel that effect because it had no lasting or meaningful impact.

When unemployment is at 9.5% that is of course going to trump the $400-800.

When the economy grows at 1.5-2% most people don't feel that. They are not personally impacted in a positive light. Given that the number is not enough to sustain a growth in JOBS for new workers entering the work force, the net result is a negative view on the economy.

As for the TARP money... people don't see it being paid back, they HEAR about it supposedly being paid back... BUT WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING? It should be going to pay down the nations debt dollar for dollar. Yet we neither hear not see that.... do we?

This is why the idiots in DC need to get in touch with the everyday American, rather than simply talking among the political elite. They simply don't get it.
 
telling the people that disapprove of your policies that they are just plain stupid and can't fathom the logic of their path is going to get you real far.

Yeah; I'm sure this post will tilt the election once news of it spreads like wildfire through the electorate.

How about "uninformed" or "misinformed"? Can we use those, or should we tiptoe around the fact that many voters don't seem to have any kind of accurate perception of reality?
 
Yeah; I'm sure this post will tilt the election once news of it spreads like wildfire through the electorate.

How about "uninformed" or "misinformed"? Can we use those, or should we tiptoe around the fact that many voters don't seem to have any kind of accurate perception of reality?

It's the administration in denial about their own effectiveness. They have none, but they still think they did something good.
 
So you didn't get this?

"Bundled in the 2009 economic stimulus plan is the $400 ($800 for couples) Making Work Pay tax credit that will provide a tax credit in 2009 and 2010 equal to 6.2 percent of your earned income up to a maximum of $400 for individual filers and $800 for couples.

The $400/$800 Making Work Pay tax credit took effect in July 2009. Workers who have taxes withheld from their paychecks will see a decrease in the federal income taxes withheld from each paycheck by about $30 per paycheck every two weeks or $60 for couples."

Please, feel free to list some of the lies Dems perpetrated against bush and his family. I'm in the mood to do some refudiating. :pke:


A $400 'tax credit'.... spread out over 26 paychecks is NOT $30.... it is $15.38. 30.77 for married couples (or $15.38 each if they are both working).

So no... most people don't see or feel that $15. Especially when the price of gas goes up. They see their disposable income falling. They see unemployment STAYING at 9.5% despite their President saying it wouldn't go above 8%.

They SEE the public sector unions being protected at THEIR expense. But nothing being done to protect THEIR jobs.

They see the health care bill as a fiasco. One that will RAISE health care costs and also raise our national debt.

They SEE the smoke and mirrors the Dems tried in order to pretend the health care fiasco would lower the nations debt.

They SEE the increase in red tape the small business owners will now face with all the 1099's they must produce.

They SEE that the Dems were more concerned with their party's ideological agenda than with actually trying to aid the economy and the growth of jobs.

They SEE that the Dems have done NOTHING with regards to the tax brackets for next year.

They SEE the what the uncertainty the Dems have created is doing to job growth.

They are therefore going to vote the Dems out of the House leadership next Tuesday.

They are therefore going to bring more balance to the Senate.

They understand the lies that the Dems keep parroting about it being the Reps that drove the car in the ditch. They understand that the two party system needed a massive shake up.

Say goodbye to Speaker Pelosi. Say goodbye to Senator Reid.

The people are pissed. The people will be displaying their displeasure of incumbents on Tuesday.
 
LMAO.... yeah... because the $400-800 is NOT a tax cut... it was a gimmic. One that didn't work. People didn't feel that effect because it had no lasting or meaningful impact.

When unemployment is at 9.5% that is of course going to trump the $400-800.

When the economy grows at 1.5-2% most people don't feel that. They are not personally impacted in a positive light. Given that the number is not enough to sustain a growth in JOBS for new workers entering the work force, the net result is a negative view on the economy.

As for the TARP money... people don't see it being paid back, they HEAR about it supposedly being paid back... BUT WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING? It should be going to pay down the nations debt dollar for dollar. Yet we neither hear not see that.... do we?

This is why the idiots in DC need to get in touch with the everyday American, rather than simply talking among the political elite. They simply don't get it.


Ha! This from the guy that claims that lay persons get their economic information from CNBC and look to the DOW and S&P500 (both up over the past 2 years) as a gauge for the economy as a whole, while discounting the idea that normal people care more about unemployment than the stock market.

That's rich.
 
Ha! This from the guy that claims that lay persons get their economic information from CNBC and look to the DOW and S&P500 (both up over the past 2 years) as a gauge for the economy as a whole, while discounting the idea that normal people care more about unemployment than the stock market.

That's rich.

what do you believe?
 
Dood. I don't want a tax "cut" (credit) targeted at me once and never again one that he acts all magnanimous for "giving" me (It's my money to begin with, you can't "give" it to me).

I want the government to stimulate business by giving incentive to hire through credits for actually giving us jobs. I don't want targeted grants towards specific projects to be the aim of "stimulus", I want ALL of the economy to be "stimulated". We can't afford to be choosy, we can't afford to be foolish, and I told you back then that we can't afford to hire this guy, his plans will bankrupt us and show no sign of ending. He wants another shot at "stimulus"?
 
Dood. I don't want a tax "cut" (credit) targeted at me once and never again one that he acts all magnanimous for "giving" me (It's my money to begin with, you can't "give" it to me).

I want the government to stimulate business by giving incentive to hire through credits for actually giving us jobs. I don't want targeted grants towards specific projects to be the aim of "stimulus", I want ALL of the economy to be "stimulated". We can't afford to be choosy, we can't afford to be foolish, and I told you back then that we can't afford to hire this guy, his plans will bankrupt us and show no sign of ending. He wants another shot at "stimulus"?

I assume you realize that over one third of the original stimulus was tax breaks, including those for small businesses to incentivize hiring & keeping jobs domestic?
 
We need to reject the idiocy of globalization alltogether, stop importing, and put all of america back to work in all fields.

Our comparative advantage is self reliance and doing everything.
 
Yeah; I'm sure this post will tilt the election once news of it spreads like wildfire through the electorate.

How about "uninformed" or "misinformed"? Can we use those, or should we tiptoe around the fact that many voters don't seem to have any kind of accurate perception of reality?

yeah, maybe you'd like to have an intelligence test before someone can vote.
 
It's really not a mystery.

Who has dominated the national dialogue over the past 2 years? The TEA party. Tune into any cable news show or panel, newspaper, magazine, whatever.

And sorry, kids, but most of the stuff that comes out of the TEA folks - at least the loud ones - is falsified propoganda. You would think Obama implemented the biggest tax increase in history...

its funny you're still running around with this after i debunked in the last thread you mentioned it....

obama purposefully made the tax cuts not as noticeable...yet you want to blame the tea party

tff
 
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