Executions largely confined to the southern US

KingCondanomation said:
I don't think you could have picked a worse example.
Bundy escaped from prison to kill 2 young girls.
If you kill murderers they cannot escape.

There is no good reason why it should cost so much to execute a murderer, most of that is lefty people who want to interfere and drag out the process and drive up the cost just so they can use it as an argument against the DP.
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So convict them and do away with the appeals process?
 
Grind said:
The death penalty is my most hardest issue. As a matter of practicality I buy into all the arguments that it's more expensive to execute than to keep them alive. I also am aware that we are executing innocent people. At the same time it's hard for me to get worked up over a child rapist/murderer being put down.

I'm not sure how I would feel if the death penalty were made cheaper and 100% foolproof, but I would likely be much less against/possibly in favor of it.

Then there is the issue of whether or not the state should have the right to be able to kill it's citizens. If I don't trust the government to take my taxes, it does seem ironic that I would invest the state with such a great power. And what is stopping the state in the future to expanding the death penalty for other crimes such as robbery/drug possession?
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I agree with you on both counts. I too am torn concerning executions.

But your last paragraph says a lot:

If I don't trust the government to take my taxes, it does seem ironic that I would invest the state with such a great power. And what is stopping the state in the future to expanding the death penalty for other crimes such as robbery/drug possession?
 
blackascoal said:
No problem brother.

Belief in God does not require the recognition of truth, or justice, or even what is "godly." It only requires belief in doctrine .. thus quite often, believers in "God" are less godly, or god-like than those who do not believe in doctrine.

Thus, there is no mystery why the south, which has such an ungodly history, is also the most religious.
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Thanks. Just wanted your point of view. On a side note, I may use your line of thought......or Grinds..... in a sermon some Sunday. Needless to say I don't agree but I always like to see what others think or where they come from with their thoughts.
 
leaningright said:
Thanks. Just wanted your point of view. On a side note, I may use your line of thought......or Grinds..... in a sermon some Sunday. Needless to say I don't agree but I always like to see what others think or where they come from with their thoughts.
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I intended no slight to you brother .. but it was my honest thought.

That being said, I'd like to hear the sermon you preach when/if you use it.
 
People got it weird. The most religious of people would more likely support the death penalty, not because they are any "less intelligent" for believing, but because the book often tells them it is the proper punishment for certain things.

Some make the argument that Jesus abolished the death penalty when he saved the adultress, but most do not have that take. If you do believe in it, intelligence or not, you are more likely to support the death penalty.

Now, if they were members of my religion/philosophy, they would not. The death penalty is repugnant. The idea that even one innocent might be executed is simply beyond any measure of humanity's quest for 'justice'. If justice in the greater measure constitutes a great nation.... *sigh*

Oddly enough there is very little in "Dogma" in Theravada Buddhism...
 
Solitary said:
Before they executed Bundy he had cost the state over $5 million.

Even if he had lived a long time, he probably would have cost less than $1 million to incarcerate. I can think of a lot of uses for $4 million. All of them better than revenge.
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I agree that under our current system the costs are more prohibitive. I was commenting on those that call the death penalty itself 'barbaric'. Sticking me in a cage with no chance of being let out would be far more cruel in my opinion.
 
leaningright said:
Thanks. Just wanted your point of view. On a side note, I may use your line of thought......or Grinds..... in a sermon some Sunday. Needless to say I don't agree but I always like to see what others think or where they come from with their thoughts.
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you give sermons?
OMG PLEASE PLEASE USE MY LINES.
 
Grind said:
you give sermons?
OMG PLEASE PLEASE USE MY LINES.
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Yes Grind, I've been a preacher for over 20 years. I have also been a Math and Science teacher for over 20 years (21 to be exact) and have loved all of it, the religious side and the public school side.
 
Oh, and I'll be sure to quote you sometime........you and BAC. I'll figure some way to get what I say to BAC also.
 
leaningright said:
Yes Grind, I've been a preacher for over 20 years. I have also been a Math and Science teacher for over 20 years (21 to be exact) and have loved all of it, the religious side and the public school side.
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that's awesome.

if you use my lines, i will give you 2000 rep points.

think about it O_O
 
Yes we have better forensic tools but only the TV shows and celebreties get them.

Money folks. How much money are we prepared to put into our criminal justice system?
 
Watermark said:
Absolutely.

South Korea is more civilized than the US, however, being that it hasn't executed anyone in more than 10 years.

And about victims, if someone in my family was murdered, there is nothing less that I would want than for conservatives to spit on their grave by executing someone because of it. The death penalty in the modern world is wholly and completely unnecessary. You guys like to use victims as human shields for your barbaric beliefs and the hard-ons you get from the death penalty. So when a victim agrees with the death penalty you shout it from the roof tops, but when they don't you tell them to shut the fuck up.
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Not only do they tell them to shut the fuck up, but in most states, when the victims family is a member of Murder Victims' Families for Reconciliation, prosecutors will go out of their way to insure that they are misled as to what date sentencing is, they tell them the judge won't let them speak at sentencing and a myriad of other lies, to avoid having victims tell the jury NOT to vote to execute. I myself have a statement that I have prepared should I ever be the victim of a murder in which the prosecution chooses to seek the death penalty. It is a TRUE victim statement as my personal representative is instructed to read it to the jury during the sentencing phase. It says that no matter how heinous my murder might have been I would not want my death demeaned by the state seeking to take vengeance in my name.

The thing that floors me most is that conservatives, who don't trust the state to do much of anything trusts the state to put together a case adequately enough to allow them to kill someone. Shit most conservatives don't believe that government can adequately spend tax dollars, but when it comes to killing in their names the state's conduct get barely a glance. You should read some of the things that have happened in trials that have led to death sentences. Judges allowing Defense attorneys to sleep at counsel table during the trial, the admission of jail house snitches testimony that they give for a promise of leniency, State coroners falsifying evidence or building the evidence to match the state's case. Cops bringing ONLY the suspect to the witnesses and then asking for an eyewitness ID. 130 people have already been found to have been innocent of the charges that led to a sentence of death. Those 130 were lucky enough to have some DNA or recanted testimony, or some other evidence of their actual innocence. Unfortunately, in most DP cases there is not that kind of evidence. Who knows how many people we may have murdered in the name of vengeance. The interesting case right now is the man in Texas that was executed for arson which resulted in the death of his daughters. Experts have no completely debunked the junk science that led to his execution. Judges, prosecutors and legislators in texas have now all gone on the record saying they believe a man that their state killed was innocent of the crime charged. Once done, can't be undone, and a state that kills a person wrongly, thinking they have done justice, is nothing more than murderer.
 
Socrtease said:
Not only do they tell them to shut the fuck up, but in most states, when the victims family is a member of Murder Victims' Families for Reconciliation, prosecutors will go out of their way to insure that they are misled as to what date sentencing is, they tell them the judge won't let them speak at sentencing and a myriad of other lies, to avoid having victims tell the jury NOT to vote to execute. I myself have a statement that I have prepared should I ever be the victim of a murder in which the prosecution chooses to seek the death penalty. It is a TRUE victim statement as my personal representative is instructed to read it to the jury during the sentencing phase. It says that no matter how heinous my murder might have been I would not want my death demeaned by the state seeking to take vengeance in my name.

The thing that floors me most is that conservatives, who don't trust the state to do much of anything trusts the state to put together a case adequately enough to allow them to kill someone. Shit most conservatives don't believe that government can adequately spend tax dollars, but when it comes to killing in their names the state's conduct get barely a glance. You should read some of the things that have happened in trials that have led to death sentences. Judges allowing Defense attorneys to sleep at counsel table during the trial, the admission of jail house snitches testimony that they give for a promise of leniency, State coroners falsifying evidence or building the evidence to match the state's case. Cops bringing ONLY the suspect to the witnesses and then asking for an eyewitness ID. 130 people have already been found to have been innocent of the charges that led to a sentence of death. Those 130 were lucky enough to have some DNA or recanted testimony, or some other evidence of their actual innocence. Unfortunately, in most DP cases there is not that kind of evidence. Who knows how many people we may have murdered in the name of vengeance. The interesting case right now is the man in Texas that was executed for arson which resulted in the death of his daughters. Experts have no completely debunked the junk science that led to his execution. Judges, prosecutors and legislators in texas have now all gone on the record saying they believe a man that their state killed was innocent of the crime charged. Once done, can't be undone, and a state that kills a person wrongly, thinking they have done justice, is nothing more than murderer.
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Well said, Soc!!
 
Socrtease said:
Not only do they tell them to shut the fuck up, but in most states, when the victims family is a member of Murder Victims' Families for Reconciliation, prosecutors will go out of their way to insure that they are misled as to what date sentencing is, they tell them the judge won't let them speak at sentencing and a myriad of other lies, to avoid having victims tell the jury NOT to vote to execute. I myself have a statement that I have prepared should I ever be the victim of a murder in which the prosecution chooses to seek the death penalty. It is a TRUE victim statement as my personal representative is instructed to read it to the jury during the sentencing phase. It says that no matter how heinous my murder might have been I would not want my death demeaned by the state seeking to take vengeance in my name.

The thing that floors me most is that conservatives, who don't trust the state to do much of anything trusts the state to put together a case adequately enough to allow them to kill someone. Shit most conservatives don't believe that government can adequately spend tax dollars, but when it comes to killing in their names the state's conduct get barely a glance. You should read some of the things that have happened in trials that have led to death sentences. Judges allowing Defense attorneys to sleep at counsel table during the trial, the admission of jail house snitches testimony that they give for a promise of leniency, State coroners falsifying evidence or building the evidence to match the state's case. Cops bringing ONLY the suspect to the witnesses and then asking for an eyewitness ID. 130 people have already been found to have been innocent of the charges that led to a sentence of death. Those 130 were lucky enough to have some DNA or recanted testimony, or some other evidence of their actual innocence. Unfortunately, in most DP cases there is not that kind of evidence. Who knows how many people we may have murdered in the name of vengeance. The interesting case right now is the man in Texas that was executed for arson which resulted in the death of his daughters. Experts have no completely debunked the junk science that led to his execution. Judges, prosecutors and legislators in texas have now all gone on the record saying they believe a man that their state killed was innocent of the crime charged. Once done, can't be undone, and a state that kills a person wrongly, thinking they have done justice, is nothing more than murderer.
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But a state isn't deciding to kill someone, a jury of my peers is. I am not trusting government.
 
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