Ex-President says US guilty of human rights violations

[WinterBorn]

I haven't maligned any nation.

Your claim is as bogus as your entitlement to any pretense of human compassion.

My apologies, you didn't malign a nation. You showed yourself to be prejudiced against a single religious faith.

As for my pretense at compassion, what evidence do you have it is a pretense?

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

You totally miss the most fundamental point here. "Food" does not mean food as you and I know it, this is a code word for "Money." You see, because NK is so far away, and what we eat is not the same things they eat and such, when we give humanitarian "food aid" it is often in the form of money, which is used (theoretically) to purchase food regionally. We (The Federal Gvt) don't ship crates of actual FOOD to NK. Money is transitioned, if not directly to the government of NK through the UN, to a third party associate of the government, so for all intents and purposes, we are sending them 'humanitarian food' MONEY.

Got a link to support those claims?

Didn't think so.

Your ignorance is appalling. Not only do charities and NGOs ship foodstuffs to needy populaces, USAID does too.

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

My apologies, you didn't malign a nation. You showed yourself to be prejudiced against a single religious faith.

As for my pretense at compassion, what evidence do you have it is a pretense?

Perhaps it was your statement that "you expect us to help feed the citizens of a nation that considers us the enemy and refuses to feed its own people".

I would expect a compassionate individual who claims to be a disciple of Christ to follow His command: "If your enemies are hungry, feed them." Romans 12:20.

Do you go to church to worship, or to get a tax deduction?

 

[Damocles]

The premise of this entire thread is that a basic right is the right to food. It sounds good on the surface.

But to blame the US because of where they didn't send food, ignores all the places the did send it.

Also, in order to meet the "basic human right" of food, farmers must grow the food, people must harvest and process the food, and it must be shipped to N. Korea. What about the basic rights of those people? Are they forced to work for free?

Not just that, but it also ignores the totalitarian reality. If the US gives the government food they can, and have in the past, used it as a weapon. Do as I say, or you don't eat. So, the US government seeks certain steps to ensure that food we give to them won't be used as a tool of totalitarianism, or sold to have more money for nuclear programs, or any number of other things that the government can, and has, done.

 

[Damocles]

The Buddha taught that compassion isn't just a virtue; it is essential to realizing enlightenment, didn't he?

The Buddha teaches that if you know that something you give to another will be used in an immoral fashion then you are responsible for the immoral act made possible by your gift.

I always find it interesting when people who know nothing about Theravada Buddhism attempt to use some tiny out of context quote to attempt to force me to behave how they want.

 

[Damocles]

Really? Link up.

To what? I linked to the same thing you did in your assertion.

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

The Buddha teaches that if you know that something you give to another will be used in an immoral fashion then you are responsible for the immoral act made possible by your gift.

I always find it interesting when people who know nothing about Theravada Buddhism attempt to use some tiny out of context quote to attempt to force me to behave how they want.

“Compassion is not religious business, it is human business, it is not luxury, it is essential for our own peace and mental stability, it is essential for human survival.”


http://thinkexist.com/quotation/compassion_is_not_religious_business-it_is_human/145362.html

“Compassion is that which makes the heart of the good move at the pain of others. It crushes and destroys the pain of others; thus, it is called compassion. It is called compassion because it shelters and embraces the distressed.” - The Buddha

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karu%E1%B9%87%C4%81#Theravada_Buddhism

Please also point out how, when, and where I attempted to force you to behave somehow.

 

[Damocles]

“Compassion is not religious business, it is human business, it is not luxury, it is essential for our own peace and mental stability, it is essential for human survival.”


http://thinkexist.com/quotation/compassion_is_not_religious_business-it_is_human/145362.html

“Compassion is that which makes the heart of the good move at the pain of others. It crushes and destroys the pain of others; thus, it is called compassion. It is called compassion because it shelters and embraces the distressed.” - The Buddha

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karu%E1%B9%87%C4%81#Theravada_Buddhism

Please also point out how, when, and where I attempted to force you to behave somehow.

Tell me, what do you think Compassion means in this case? Do you believe that Compassion means we should give food to the people who will use it to enslave them?

Compassion does not mean you must turn off your mind. The most compassionate thing we can do for people in North Korea isn't assisting the government in enslaving the people further by erroneously believing that giving the government food will fix this problem, the most compassionate thing we can do for the people in North Korea is work towards a society where they can act freely to feed themselves in a society where their food isn't stolen and sold.

 

[Damocles]

People somehow believe that they can just say "Compassion" and Buddhists will shamelessly and without thought act in a certain fashion. Buddha teaches that you must use your mind, and not to follow dogma. The idea that I must act in some dogmatic fashion based on tidbits of quotes used by somebody who misunderstands the philosophy is actually quite interesting. Tell me, why do you think you can better discern how I should act than I?

 

[WinterBorn]

Perhaps it was your statement that "you expect us to help feed the citizens of a nation that considers us the enemy and refuses to feed its own people".

I would expect a compassionate individual who claims to be a disciple of Christ to follow His command: "If your enemies are hungry, feed them." Romans 12:20.

Do you go to church to worship, or to get a tax deduction?

Except my gov't is not a religious organization. And that is what this thread is about.

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

DAMOCLES teaches that if you know that something you give to another will be used in an immoral fashion then you are responsible for the immoral act made possible by your gift.

Thanks for correcting me, Dalai Damocles.

Now I know I shouldn't help a hungry child, because if they don't starve, someday they might do something bad.

 

[WinterBorn]

The Buddha taught that compassion isn't just a virtue; it is essential to realizing enlightenment, didn't he?

You are mistaking Buddha for the US gov't? Wow.

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

You are mistaking Buddha for the US gov't? Wow.

No, I was mistaking Damocles for a Buddhist. My error.

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

People somehow believe that they can just say "Compassion" and Buddhists will shamelessly and without thought act in a certain fashion. Buddha teaches that you must use your mind, and not to follow dogma. The idea that I must act in some dogmatic fashion based on tidbits of quotes used by somebody who misunderstands the philosophy is actually quite interesting. Tell me, why do you think you can better discern how I should act than I?

Did I say that? Link up.

 

[WinterBorn]

Thanks for correcting me, Dalai Damocles.

Now I know I shouldn't help a hungry child, because if they don't starve, someday they might do something bad.

Is that what Damo said?

 

[Damocles]

Thanks for correcting me, Dalai Damocles.

Now I know I shouldn't help a hungry child, because if they don't starve, someday they might do something bad.

Interesting. So you believe that we should give the food to the government who will withhold it from him, and that is "compassion"?

 

[Damocles]

Is that what Damo said?

Of course not. Rtber is an interesting bloke, he's trying to troll a Buddhist. This should be interesting.

 

[WinterBorn]

How so?

"One of the most important human rights is to have food to eat, and for South Korea and the US and others to deliberately withhold food aid to the North Korean people is really a human rights violation," he said."

In this case, "the US" is referring to the US federal government and the aid it sends out. It is not talking about private religious organizations or other private relief organizations.

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

Is that what Damo said?

Yep.

The Buddha teaches that if you know that something you give to another will be used in an immoral fashion then you are responsible for the immoral act made possible by your gift.

I always find it interesting when people who know nothing about Theravada Buddhism attempt to use some tiny out of context quote to attempt to force me to behave how they want.

 

[WinterBorn]

Is it?

If it isn't then it is wrong. There is private relief going to N. Korea. UMCOR is one agency that provides relief in NK. (p.s. UMCOR is United Methodist Commitee on Relief - part of where my church dollars go)

But yes, the article is about US policy, not about religious organizations.