Ex-President says US guilty of human rights violations

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¯¯¯̿̿¯̿̿’̿̿̿̿̿̿̿’̿̿’̿̿;806859 said:
When the US says "Do as I say, or you don't eat", that's morally superior.

Got it.
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The aid sent by the US has been used to control the people, sold and the money used to fund nuclear weapons research and to fund their military, and kept from the starving population so they could use it to feed their military troops.

If any of the above are done, aid is actually harming the people.



Are you actually this ignorant or are you just unwilling to admit an error?
 
¯¯¯̿̿¯̿̿’̿̿̿̿̿̿̿’̿̿’̿̿;806859 said:
When the US says "Do as I say, or you don't eat", that's morally superior.

Got it.
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That is incorrect. If we are to give food compassionately and morally we must ensure the entity to whom we give it does not use it as a tool of totalitarianism to enslave others or to simply enrich themselves in order to pay for weapon research.

The idea that the US is responsible for what the NK government does with the food is a clear path. It is not a compassionate act to enslave others through proxy. It is even less compassionate to do so without resolving the original issue. The bottom line, we must ensure that people will actually be fed by the food that is given, to do so without that assurance would be both immoral and dispassionate.

It would be most compassionate to actually go to NK and feed the people directly or to support an entity that does such. The UN and the US both do not, they work through the government. Ensuring the food actually reaches the people is an act of compassion.
 
WinterBorn said:
The aid sent by the US has been used to control the people, sold and the money used to fund nuclear weapons research and to fund their military, and kept from the starving population so they could use it to feed their military troops.

If any of the above are done, aid is actually harming the people.



Are you actually this ignorant or are you just unwilling to admit an error?
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Exactly, and giving the food when it is known this will happen would be an immoral act. It is in the knowing that would make it immoral. You are then handing them the tool of totalitarianism, the weapon and you become complicit in the immoral act.
 
¯¯¯̿̿¯̿̿’̿̿̿̿̿̿̿’̿̿’̿̿;806867 said:
Please, explain how starving people because you hate their government is OK under any circumstances.
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Explain how giving aid when it does not reach the people is going to help those starving people?

Explain how trying to tie this to christians or buddhists has anything to do with what the US gov't does?



And the strawman argument you present here is worthless. No one is withholding aid because they hate the N.Korean gov't. The US stopped wasting foriegn aid money because the N.Korean gov't used it as a weapon against or misused it.
 
¯¯¯̿̿¯̿̿’̿̿̿̿̿̿̿’̿̿’̿̿;806867 said:
Please, explain how starving people because you hate their government is OK under any circumstances.
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If your act of giving will simply be used to control them rather than to feed them it is not only "OK" but necessary. Simply giving without thought, knowing your gift will be used as a weapon against people is immoral. If in your giving you make their situation worse, then it is not an act of compassion.
 
Damocles said:
If your act of giving will simply be used to control them rather than to feed them it is not only "OK" but necessary. Simply giving without thought, knowing your gift will be used as a weapon against people is immoral. If in your giving you make their situation worse, then it is not an act of compassion.
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Not giving to control them is better.

Got it.
 
¯¯¯̿̿¯̿̿’̿̿̿̿̿̿̿’̿̿’̿̿;806770 said:
I did. Thanks! Your wife was certainly pleased. Tell her I'll see her again, next time you're out of town.
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that explains it!..... she noticed you peaking in the window but you left before the cops got there.......you may not be so lucky next time.....
 
¯¯¯̿̿¯̿̿’̿̿̿̿̿̿̿’̿̿’̿̿;806875 said:
None of the aid reaches the people who need it, and the food sent in actually harms the intended recipients? Are you saying UMCOR, the charity you said your church supports, is aiding and abetting a tyrannical Communist regime?

The opinions expressed in this thread are those of putative Christians and a Buddhist.

Maybe the government shouldn't provide aid. Did I say it should?
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Did I say that the UMCOR provides aid to anyone in the NK gov't?
Did I say the food sent in actually harms the intended recepients?

As for the "putative" christian, the attempt at a slur is laughable. The word "putative" could be used for any claim anyone makes about themselves in these forums.
 
¯¯¯̿̿¯̿̿’̿̿̿̿̿̿̿’̿̿’̿̿;807067 said:
You said this:



Then, you said this:

First of all, I did say there was private relief going into NK. Then I said "The aid sent by the US..., which is the same phrase as was used in the OP. Those were two different entities.

I am glad to know that you think all Buddhists and Christians should be nothing but sweetness and kind words. We should never try to stop an injustice or try to stop an oppressive regime from abusing their people??? Good to know.

So it appears that you said aid provided was appropriated by the NK government and "is actually harming the people", doesn't it?

The word "putative" applies perfectly to anyone who claims to follow Christ or Buddha and makes the sort of mean-spirited comments in this thread.
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First of all, I did say there was private relief going into NK. Then I said "The aid sent by the US..., which is the same phrase as was used in the OP. Those were two different entities.

I am glad to know that you think all Buddhists and Christians should be nothing but sweetness and kind words. We should never try to stop an injustice or try to stop an oppressive regime from abusing their people??? Good to know.
 
¯¯¯̿̿¯̿̿’̿̿̿̿̿̿̿’̿̿’̿̿;807067 said:
You said this:



Then, you said this:



So it appears that you said aid provided was appropriated by the NK government and "is actually harming the people", doesn't it?

The word "putative" applies perfectly to anyone who claims to follow Christ or Buddha and makes the sort of mean-spirited comments in this thread.
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ZOMG....you're quoting people...according to you that makes you stalker and obsessed freak

LOL
 
¯¯¯̿̿¯̿̿’̿̿̿̿̿̿̿’̿̿’̿̿;807086 said:
So the aid sent by UMCOR and other NGOs is somehow not being confiscated and sold by the regime, thus depriving the starving of food? It's just US government aid that's being diverted?

Care to share your evidence for that assertion?
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The UMCOR has people on the ground handing food to people and sharing farming techniques and tools with the actual people.

NK won't allow US gov't officials to do the same.

¯¯¯̿̿¯̿̿’̿̿̿̿̿̿̿’̿̿’̿̿;807086 said:
Perhaps you should read your Bible and learn what your Savior has to say about compassion, charity and idle words. I'm just sayin'.
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I have read it cover to cover. I know what I said, and none of it lacked compassion. I was speaking about government policy. I am adamantly opposed to my gov't becoming a christian gov't.

Also, if I do harm someone (when I am angry or whatever) I sincerely ask for forgiveness.
 
¯¯¯̿̿¯̿̿’̿̿̿̿̿̿̿’̿̿’̿̿;806786 said:
Perhaps it was your statement that "you expect us to help feed the citizens of a nation that considers us the enemy and refuses to feed its own people".

I would expect a compassionate individual who claims to be a disciple of Christ to follow His command: "If your enemies are hungry, feed them." Romans 12:20.

Do you go to church to worship, or to get a tax deduction?
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FYI, the North Korean people are not our enemies. They are victims of communist ideology. I don't see how giving food to the civil and military leadership (our enemies), which will never make its way into the hands of the needy, does any good.
 
¯¯¯̿̿¯̿̿’̿̿̿̿̿̿̿’̿̿’̿̿;807261 said:
It's your philosophy, Dalai Damocles, or at least it's how I interpreted what you said.



:dunno:

You explain it.
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It was an act of willing ignorance and willful misunderstanding on your part. It isn't that difficult to explain.

It would be the same as me giving you a rifle to hunt with when you've told me you were planning to, and had in the past, shoot others. (Yeah, I know a split infinitive... too bad grammar nazis).
 
storyimage_sized_bhutan.jpg
You talkin' to me?
 
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