Evangelicals fume as GOP surrenders in gay marriage wars

Wolverine said:
Jesus is God, the scriptures are inspired by God, the Apostle Paul confirmed in his teaching that Homosexuality was a sin. Do you believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God or do you not?
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First, you made claims about what Jesus supposedly said, not what Paul supposedly wrote.

Paul was writing letters to colleagues in Christian communities in Asia Minor, Greece, and Italy.

He did not know he was supposedly writing scripture. Men living 200 years after Paul decided to retroactively declare his letters revealed scripture.

The overwhelming consensus among religious scholars is that only seven of the Pauline epistles were genuinely written by Paul. The rest are pseudonymous by unknown authors claiming to be Paul.

Furthermore, you have never actually read Paul's letters. You are reading modern English translations. Paul did not speak or write English, a language which did not even exist in the first century.

Paul was a Hellenistic Jew who wrote in ancient Greek. Translations from a two thousand year old language into modern vernacular necessarily requires subjective interpretation of meaning and intent. Since neither you nor I read ancient Greek we are not in a position to categorically claim what Paul's goal and intent were.
 
Cypress said:
First, you made claims about what Jesus supposedly said, not what Paul supposedly wrote.

Paul was writing letters to colleagues in Christian communities in Asia Minor, Greece, and Italy.

He did not know he was supposedly writing scripture. Men living 200 years after Paul decided to retroactively declare his letters revealed scripture.

The overwhelming consensus among religious scholars is that only seven of the Pauline epistles were genuinely written by Paul. The rest are pseudonymous by unknown authors claiming to be Paul.

Furthermore, you have never actually read Paul's letters. You are reading modern English translations. Paul did not speak or write English, a language which did not even exist in the first century.

Paul was a Hellenistic Jew who wrote in ancient Greek. Translations from a two thousand year old language into modern vernacular necessarily requires subjective interpretation of meaning and intent. Since neither you nor I read ancient Greek we are not in a position to categorically claim what Paul's goal and intent were.
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Your ignorance knows no bounds, whatever is in the Bible, whomever said it it was inspired by God! The words in Red were Jesus, therefore God was speaking directly!
 
Wolverine said:
Your ignorance knows no bounds, whatever is in the Bible, whomever said it it was inspired by God! The words in Red were Jesus, therefore God was speaking directly!
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you originally did not mention Paul at all. Your laser like focus is on what you claim Jesus said.

I accept your tacit confession that Jewish law in Leviticus does not necessarily apply to gentiles. Paul's entire mission was to base the church on the premise that Jewish law in Torah should not be a requirement of gentiles.

Paul did not think anyone ideally should be having sex or seeking romantic partners, because as an apocalypticist he thought the second coming of Christ was imminet and the faithful needed to focus on righteousness, asceticism, and piety in preparation for the Kingdom of God
 
Cypress said:
you originally did not mention Paul at all. Your laser like focus is on what you claim Jesus said.

I accept your tacit confession that Jewish law in Leviticus does not necessarily apply to gentiles. Paul's entire mission was to base the church on the premise that Jewish law in Torah should not be a requirement of gentiles.

Paul did not think anyone ideally should be having sex or seeking romantic partners, because as an apocalypticist he thought the second coming of Christ was imminet and the faithful needed to focus on righteousness, asceticism, and piety in preparation for the Kingdom of God
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Anything attributed to Paul was inspired by God!
 
Iolo/Penderyn said:
I' always baffled by this sort of discussion.
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I'd be glad to help you out, then.

Iolo/Penderyn said:
Why should Christians be against anyone getting married who wants to?
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They aren't. A number of Christians (such as myself), however, are against the perversion of marriage (to the point where the institution becomes completely irrelevant).

Iolo/Penderyn said:
Where did Jesus say otherwise?
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Matthew 19:4-6 is quite clear on how Jesus views marriage (red highlights are mine).

4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
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Very straightforward, right from the mouth of Jesus himself.
 
Cypress said:
I do not think Jesus himself is reported to have spoken about her homosexuality as a sin.
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See Matthew 19:4-6 ... Jesus was very clear on what marriage is (between a man and a woman), and was very clear about how deviations away from that are sinful. He is also very clear about recognizing the Old Testament as the Word of God, regularly quoting from it.
 
gfm7175 said:
And that claim is correct. Matthew 19:4-6 is very clear.


LIE. He was one of Jesus' disciples. He knew Jesus quite well.


Irrelevant.
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No one knows who wrote the Gospels. They were written by anonymous literate, educated Greek-speakers ~50 years after Jesus' execution. Matthew was almost certainly an Aramaic speaking Jew incapable of writing educated Greek.

It was only later second century A D. Christian tradition to retroactively name the Gospels after disciples of Jesus (Matthew, John) or companions of disciples (Mark, Luke)
 
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