EV sales are booming and there are a plethora of new, affordable models.

[T. A. Gardner]

That's about the price of such a stamp here in Washington too.
There is also an additional inspection charge for such high current installations. Don't know if they have that in AZ. That's a county charge here.

There's a nominal permitting fee--typically about $100 to $300-- if you go that route (eg., replace your service). It's hiring an electrical engineer that's expensive, even when you have one you use--and I do have a 'guy' that does that in Buckeye AZ who is semi-retired and works out of his house. The replacement of an existing service for a 300 amp + panel will run you anywhere from about $8000 up depending on the length of the underground pull, if that is the case (usually is) along with labor and materials. Anything over 200 amps in a residential panel is wholesale only and a lot more expensive.

 

[Into the Night]

There's a nominal permitting fee--typically about $100 to $300-- if you go that route (eg., replace your service). It's hiring an electrical engineer that's expensive, even when you have one you use--and I do have a 'guy' that does that in Buckeye AZ who is semi-retired and works out of his house. The replacement of an existing service for a 300 amp + panel will run you anywhere from about $8000 up depending on the length of the underground pull, if that is the case (usually is) along with labor and materials. Anything over 200 amps in a residential panel is wholesale only and a lot more expensive.

Nice that you have an engineer that you can turn to like that. Whether it's an underground pull or an overhead pull, that IS part of the cost. About the only that doesn't change is the pole (if it's already installed) or the pad might not have to change to accommodate the new transformer.

There is an EV charging station at a nearby shopping mall (mandated and only partially subsidized). It has room for eight cars. There are typically four to six cars waiting for a charger as well (you can add THAT to your 'charge' time, since you have to wait for the other car to charge before you can even start charging yours!).

Of note here is the sheer massive transformer required for this thing. It is dedicated ONLY to the charging stations. That's in addition to the equipment bays (mostly rectifiers and the like). That massive transformer is hidden behind some bushes so the idiots charging their cars don't have to see it.

They think the power magickally comes out of nowhere.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Nice that you have an engineer that you can turn to like that. Whether it's an underground pull or an overhead pull, that IS part of the cost. About the only that doesn't change is the pole (if it's already installed) or the pad might not have to change to accommodate the new transformer.

There is an EV charging station at a nearby shopping mall (mandated and only partially subsidized). It has room for eight cars. There are typically four to six cars waiting for a charger as well (you can add THAT to your 'charge' time, since you have to wait for the other car to charge before you can even start charging yours!).

Of note here is the sheer massive transformer required for this thing. It is dedicated ONLY to the charging stations. That's in addition to the equipment bays (mostly rectifiers and the like). That massive transformer is hidden behind some bushes so the idiots charging their cars don't have to see it.

They think the power magickally comes out of nowhere.

The way it works is overhead I am responsible for the weatherhead on the roof and the wiring to it. The drop from the pole to the roof is on the utility company. Underground, I am responsble for running the cable to the street where the utility indicated they want it (2' deep trench minimum), or to the existing hook up point. I need to leave about 18 to 24 inches of cable for the hook up either way, unless more is specified by the utility.

 

[RB 60]

That is correct. That is ONLY the engineer's investigation and approval.
Upgrading the service means a new power transformer on the pole (or on the pad), upgrading the service entrance, rebuilding the panel and power meter (causing all other circuitry to suddenly have to meet updated code!), and of course the wiring, charger mount, conduit, and the labor for it all.

At least it's not an inductive load.

Yep. Work for a few different contractors, especially if the place needs rewired.

 

[Joe Capitalist]

The global auto industry is undergoing a sea change, with implications for the energy sector, as electrification is set to avoid the need for 5 million barrels of oil a day by 2030

Global sales of electric cars are set to surge to yet another record this year, expanding their share of the overall car market to close to one-fifth and leading a major transformation of the auto industry that has implications for the energy sector, especially oil.

The new edition of the IEA’s annual Global Electric Vehicle Outlook shows that more than 10 million electric cars were sold worldwide in 2022 and that sales are expected to grow by another 35% this year to reach 14 million. This explosive growth means electric cars’ share of the overall car market has risen from around 4% in 2020 to 14% in 2022 and is set to increase further to 18% this year, based on the latest IEA projections.

“Electric vehicles are one of the driving forces in the new global energy economy that is rapidly emerging – and they are bringing about a historic transformation of the car manufacturing industry worldwide,” said IEA Executive Director Fatih Birol. “The trends we are witnessing have significant implications for global oil demand. The internal combustion engine has gone unrivalled for over a century, but electric vehicles are changing the status quo. By 2030, they will avoid the need for at least 5 million barrels a day of oil. Cars are just the first wave: electric buses and trucks will follow soon.”

 

[Lionfish]

The global auto industry is undergoing a sea change, with implications for the energy sector, as electrification is set to avoid the need for 5 million barrels of oil a day by 2030

Global sales of electric cars are set to surge to yet another record this year, expanding their share of the overall car market to close to one-fifth and leading a major transformation of the auto industry that has implications for the energy sector, especially oil.

The new edition of the IEA’s annual Global Electric Vehicle Outlook shows that more than 10 million electric cars were sold worldwide in 2022 and that sales are expected to grow by another 35% this year to reach 14 million. This explosive growth means electric cars’ share of the overall car market has risen from around 4% in 2020 to 14% in 2022 and is set to increase further to 18% this year, based on the latest IEA projections.

“Electric vehicles are one of the driving forces in the new global energy economy that is rapidly emerging – and they are bringing about a historic transformation of the car manufacturing industry worldwide,” said IEA Executive Director Fatih Birol. “The trends we are witnessing have significant implications for global oil demand. The internal combustion engine has gone unrivalled for over a century, but electric vehicles are changing the status quo. By 2030, they will avoid the need for at least 5 million barrels a day of oil. Cars are just the first wave: electric buses and trucks will follow soon.”

Joey wet panties clearly has no knowledge of any of the byproducts of oil production up to and including his electric government car.

 

[Into the Night]

The way it works is overhead I am responsible for the weatherhead on the roof and the wiring to it. The drop from the pole to the roof is on the utility company. Underground, I am responsble for running the cable to the street where the utility indicated they want it (2' deep trench minimum), or to the existing hook up point. I need to leave about 18 to 24 inches of cable for the hook up either way, unless more is specified by the utility.

Whether you do the underground pull or the utility hangs a new drop, it still means someone has to pay for it. The utility company doesn't work for free, as you well know! Oh...and the cost of trenching and back filling and the conduit too, if it's an underground pull!

 

[Into the Night]

B]SIZE=4]The global auto industry is undergoing a sea change, with implications for the energy sector, as electrification is set to avoid the need for 5 million barrels of oil a day by 2030[/SIZE][/B]

More made up shit.

B]SIZE=2]Global sales of electric cars are set to surge to yet another record this year, expanding their share of the overall car market to close to one-fifth and leading a major transformation of the auto industry that has implications for the energy sector, especially oil.[/SIZE][/B]

More made up shit.

B]SIZE=2]The new edition of the IEA’s annual Global Electric Vehicle Outlook shows that more than 10 million electric cars were sold worldwide in 2022 and that sales are expected to grow by another 35% this year to reach 14 million. This explosive growth means electric cars’ share of the overall car market has risen from around 4% in 2020 to 14% in 2022 and is set to increase further to 18% this year, based on the latest IEA projections.[/SIZE][/B]

What 'explosive growth'?? Less than 1% of the cars on the road are EVs. You are AGAIN ignoring sales of gasoline cars.

B]SIZE=2]“Electric vehicles are one of the driving forces in the new global energy economy that is rapidly emerging

There is no 'global energy economy'. This is just globalism.

– and they are bringing about a historic transformation of the car manufacturing industry worldwide,” said IEA Executive Director Fatih Birol.

More made up shit.

"“The trends we are witnessing have significant implications for global oil demand.

No. Less then 1% of the cars on the road are EVs.

The internal combustion engine has gone unrivalled for over a century,

It still is.

but electric vehicles are changing the status quo.

No, they are not.

By 2030, they will avoid the need for at least 5 million barrels a day of oil.

Made up shit.

Cars are just the first wave: electric buses and trucks will follow soon.”[/SIZE][/B]

There are already electric buses and trucks. Truckers don't want 'em. They have a payload to carry and they don't want to reduce their payload by carrying batteries.
Buses run on trolley wires, but those wires don't go everywhere the buses need to go. Diesel engines are still used on them.

The heavier the vehicle, the worse the problem with the battery becomes. It is NOT linear. The wasted weight in batteries goes up as the square of the weight of a vehicle.

Now let's talk about battery fires on buses that have DESTROYED whole bus barns and KILLED riders.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Whether you do the underground pull or the utility hangs a new drop, it still means someone has to pay for it. The utility company doesn't work for free, as you well know! Oh...and the cost of trenching and back filling and the conduit too, if it's an underground pull!

You use a slit trenching machine and SE cable. No conduit and the "trench" is about maybe 2" wide. You drop in the cable, backfill to about a foot, put in the warning tape with a ground wire in it, then finish the fill. The big expenses are the cable and trenching machine rental if you don't do these all the time. Those two set you back about $1000 between them.

 

[QP!]

Joey wets panties

Will you be shocked to learn, from people who grew up in States prone to severe snow storms that could halt traffic, how many ICE vehicles we would see that had to pull off to the shoulder, if they could make it, as they ran out of gas?


I am sure you would be shocked. And you know why.

You are stupid and think things like this and fire only apply to EV's.

 

[Lionfish]

Will you be shocked to learn, from people who grew up in States prone to severe snow storms that could halt traffic, how many ICE vehicles we would see that had to pull off to the shoulder, if they could make it, as they ran out of gas?


I am sure you would be shocked. And you know why.

You are stupid and think things like this and fire only apply to EV's.

Derp Derp Derp, you are stupid. If my ICE vehicle runs out of gas in a storm, someone can bring me a gallon can of fuel. Try that with your cute EV. They will bring you an ICE powered tow truck to haul you away, that is, if they can find one that is not afraid of the fires and potential damage caused by a bricked EV. Derp, Derp, Derp!!! You are stupid.

https://www.mariettawrecker.com/blog/2022/05/10/why-cant-electric-cars-be-towed/

 

[Joe Capitalist]

Will you be shocked to learn, from people who grew up in States prone to severe snow storms that could halt traffic, how many ICE vehicles we would see that had to pull off to the shoulder, if they could make it, as they ran out of gas?

I am sure you would be shocked. And you know why.

You are stupid and think things like this and fire only apply to EV's.

Yeah, and EVs don't overheat in stop-and-go traffic. I remember in my College days, my friend and I were driving to an NFL game. We were sitting in stop-and-go traffic dealing with the backup when his car (Mercury Cougar) started overheating. We had to ditch the car and hitch a ride to the game. It caused major damage to his car. Wouldn't have happened to an EV.

But you're right about one thing: They are stupid. They hate everything that doesn't run on gas and that's good for the environment. They probably hate electric lawn mowers and battery power tools, too. How stupid is that?

 

[Lionfish]

Joey pisses wetsuit.

 

[Into the Night]

You use a slit trenching machine and SE cable. No conduit and the "trench" is about maybe 2" wide. You drop in the cable, backfill to about a foot, put in the warning tape with a ground wire in it, then finish the fill. The big expenses are the cable and trenching machine rental if you don't do these all the time. Those two set you back about $1000 between them.

Depends on the requirements for the installation. Some places require conduit the whole way.

 

[Into the Night]

Will you be shocked to learn, from people who grew up in States prone to severe snow storms that could halt traffic, how many ICE vehicles we would see that had to pull off to the shoulder, if they could make it, as they ran out of gas?


I am sure you would be shocked. And you know why.

You are stupid and think things like this and fire only apply to EV's.

You can hike for gas. You can't hike for a charge. Further, winter conditions for EVs reduces their range significantly, since battery power is used to drive the heating, defrosting, lights, wipers, etc.
Not the case for gasoline cars, where heating and defrosting is free. It doesn't cost any additional gas.

 

[Into the Night]

B]SIZE=2]
Yeah, and EVs don't overheat in stop-and-go traffic.

Neither do gasoline cars.

That is, unless either is defective.

B]SIZE=2]
I remember in my College days, my friend and I were driving to an NFL game. We were sitting in stop-and-go traffic dealing with the backup when his car (Mercury Cougar) started overheating. We had to ditch the car and hitch a ride to the game. It caused major damage to his car.

So your car was defective, an you continued to drive it and destroy the engine. I see you don't take care of your cars.

B]SIZE=2]
Wouldn't have happened to an EV.

Yes it does!

B]SIZE=2]
But you're right about one thing: They are stupid. They hate everything that doesn't run on gas and that's good for the environment.

Your EV runs on oil products, wastes almost twice as much energy as a gasoline car, is more expensive to purchase, maintain, insure, or fix. It is NOT good for the environment. EVs do not 'save the planet'.

B]SIZE=2]
They probably hate electric lawn mowers and battery power tools, too. How stupid is that?/SIZE]/B]

No electric lawn mower can do my lawn (9 acres). I use an electric lawnmower for trimming, nothing more. My mowing equipment is mostly either gas or diesel powered for a reason.
I have no problem with battery power tools, but air does a better job if I have it (electric compressor!). Battery power tools have their place, but they are not a replacement for any tool.

Neither is a car. Electric cars are stupid. They are expensive and heavily subsidized. The waste energy. They do not 'save the planet'. They still have cooling problems that can develop (they still use liquid coolant!).

Since you don't maintain your cars, you don't maintain your EV either. Your loss.

 

[Into the Night]

Joey pisses wetsuit.

Not many cars can BURN WHILE UNDERWATER!

But an EV can!

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Depends on the requirements for the installation. Some places require conduit the whole way.

Never seen that. Both IRC and NEC, allow for direct burial to be used and those are the two standards for like 98% of the US. The only place you need conduit on such a run is if the wiring is exposed above ground. Then you have to go 12 to 18" deep with conduit where it comes out of the ground and is exposed.

 

[Into the Night]

Never seen that. Both IRC and NEC, allow for direct burial to be used and those are the two standards for like 98% of the US. The only place you need conduit on such a run is if the wiring is exposed above ground. Then you have to go 12 to 18" deep with conduit where it comes out of the ground and is exposed.

That is correct, but counties and cities often add their own requirements to the code. In our county, for example, they required conduit. The trench I dug for that work was 4" wide by the usual 2ft deep and about 100ft long.
At least you get direct burial in your area, and you have the sense to put in the warning tape. You are right that most places allow direct burial. The conduit requirement was a city addition to the code.

 

[Lionfish]